I look at this a little differently. I viewed the sale of the Estes 'sustainables' at the Wally
F--ts as an attempt by Estes itself to remain sustainable. Never were the rockets they sold supplied with the proper sustainable hardware to keep a budding enthusiast sustained. No knowledge by the sales staff; in fact, great disdain was shown to me when I told the lady the C6-3's they had as the only engines would cause just about every one of the rockets they sold to be lost forever.
Selling the Solar Flare kits with no booster motors anywhere.
Michael's is really no better. Niether is Hobby Lobby. These places offer folks like us the opportunity to purchase rockets and some motors routinely with 40% or 50% off coupons. That's about it.
Personally, I hope Estes severs their ties to WM. I think it did them at least as much harm as good. To literally make a small line of kits just for the WMs of the world turned out to be a lousy business model. However, I think it gave Estes a quick (but ephemoral) influx of cash which may have saved them. Probably not.
Thank goodness the powers at Great Planes have taken over. Judging from the spike in interest producing the 'old' kits again, indeed, interest in US and our opinions, I think better times are ahead. I look forward to their coming attractions.
A WM near me has several rockets and motors still on the shelf: The C6-5's were $3 a pack; the others were $5.98! I asked a manager if I could buy the rest for the $3 asking price of the C6-5's. Her answer was that she had been instructed by the home office NOT to lower any prices until told to do so. The tags on the shelf all had a big 'D' on the labels, which I interpreted to mean 'discontinued.' All the manager did was shrug!

Oh, well!
Allen

I think we really are in the golden age of model rocketry right now with the only exception being the available choices in SU black-powder motors which is not nearly as good as it was in say 1975. That is the ONE area where I hope the new ownership of Estes REALLY steps up to the plate to remedy the situation.
I thought this was about to change with the YEARS ago announcement of new SU Black Powder E and F engines from Quest, but I think that the situation with those has probably passed into the Vaporware realm just like their 18mm D and the old Enerjet 18mm D; my guess with those is that they are not willing to sell them for a price point that is competitive with composite 24 and 29mm reloads. I think Quest could really improve their motor sales if they offered engines that Estes currently does NOT like a B14, etc. Trying to sell the same stuff makes about as much sense as a new beer company trying to compete with Miller or Bud for Lager sales; NONE !

The kit selection, parts, and composite motor selection available now is better than it ever has been.

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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

Yep. The only way to compete is to use the snob appeal of the boutique brews. Quest could make boutique motors like their new D5, but they can't really demand boutique prices and survive.

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I love sanding.

It isn't necessary to either duplicate a competitor's motors or produce boutique motors. There are some indications that Quest may be thinking about getting into 13 mm mini motors, due to their marketing of Chinese-made 18 mm motors from a firm that also makes 13 mm motors (this was mentioned in another YORF posting, whose name I can't recall). Quest could sell 13 mm motors that fill total impulse/delay combination "slots" that Estes doesn't offer in their mini motors. For example, they could offer "1/4A4," "1/2A4," and "A4" mini motors in 2, 3, 4, and 6 second delays, much like the mini motors that Centuri made (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/73cen00c.html ).

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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
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http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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NAR #54895 SR

Wakey-wakey:

http://www.nar.org/SandT/STchrono.html

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-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 (L2)
Southern California Rocket Association, NAR Section 430

This thread reminded me of an article I wrote for the DARS newsletter. The date was November-December, 1990. Here is is. Sorry about the quality of the copy!

Attached Thumbnails

 

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J. Stuart Powley
NAR 29573
"Gravity is a harsh mistress."

My point is that the majority of these motors will not be high volume sales like the B6-4 or C6-5, and Quest motors are more expensive in general (at least for me to purchase). I didn't mean boutique motors in a literal sense of small handmade batches.

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I love sanding.

That's just the D5 already out, an A3, which Estes already has, and the D8, which still hasn't shown up.

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I love sanding.

Yep...the new Quest motors certified are either Vaporware, motors we don't need, or motors we already have.

A3- don't need, Estes already makes it and Quest's won't be cheaper.

D5- A LOW thrust higher priced "D" ?? WTH ? C'mon now; what we need is a HIGH thrust single use D that will lift MORE mass than a D12, NOT less.

D8- I put this one in the Vaporware class as it was announced when they claimed they would bring out SU BP E and F 29mm engines as well; the only thing this has over the vaporware E and f is that it was actually sent for certification. Besides, unless this was a 18mm D that would fit into underpowered-on-a-C6 18mm rockets, what's the need for that one either ?

With the list of "semi-new" motors on quest's list it makes one wonder if they really did ANY research into what the market needs/wants. Bring out reliable versions of the old FSI F100 (actually barely an F80) and the E60 and they would sell like gangbusters IF and ONLY IF one could obtain them for the price of a RMS24 or 29 reload. Otherwise, don't bother.

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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

I think this was more a matter of seeing what's already in production elsewhere and trying to import it to the States without needing to invest huge $$$ in engineering a new motor from the ground up. If it were to prove profitable, I'm sure more variants - with even more desirable features - could follow.

I still have my fingers crossed on these three products, altho I'm not holding my breath

Doug

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YORF member #11