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  #1  
Old 04-19-2009, 09:28 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Default Is It Safe???

Pardon the Dustin Hoffman "Marathon Man" movie line...

Maybe it's safer to speak over here, Carl. Somehow, I don't think Mike has access to this area of the forum...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl@Semroc
I have been following the new "Ask Mike" thread with my hands tied behind my back. I have not posted there because I cannot swear that I can obey the rules that Mr. Dorffler has set. They are far worse than the rules I have seen on any other forum.

It is OK for him to bash manufacturers, individuals, the NAR, and even his boss, but there can be no retalliation or he will shut the forum down, because it is HIS forum. Maybe the shutting down forums is an Estes-Cox thing. The latest warning from Mr. Dorffler about some posts has me stumped. I went back through the posts and can not find anything that even comes close to disrespect or "talking past." Maybe my threshhold is at a different level or I have a different concept of what disrespect is. Or maybe according to the rules of Mike's Forum, they were deleted before I saw them.

If the tone of that post is Mr. Dorffler's true feelings and not just a bad day, it shows a level of contempt that has been almost non-existent on this forum. I don't even know if I was one of the targets, but I feel like I have been lumped in with a group of illiterate, disrespectful, agenda-driven simpletons and sent over to the Group W Bench.



I was somewhat taken by his sudden sharp verbal attack myself, and had to go back through the previous messages in that line to see if anything could be singled out. I'm not sure I could even pin anything on the "usual suspects"...

Carl, Mike's not the only one with an arrogant streak over there. I'm detecting the same broad sweep of smugness from several of the alleged Estes Employees. It almost sounds like a corporate "party line". It's clear there is still a strong level of contempt for our variety of consumer. We're educated, knowledgeable, and savvy. In short, we're a threat, because we're NOT of the simple-minded impulse buyer mentality they want to target their products toward.

I'm not even a manufacturer, and I really chafed at the open hostility they have all demonstrated toward the "other companies", declaring them as "operating illegally" simply because those companies may not have needed to spend millions of dollars trying to cover their backsides with the new CPSIA act. Estes seems to be implying they're the "only true path" in rocketry because they've 'suffered' such deep-pocketed expenses trying to get into compliance. Have you (or has anyone) heard anything regarding what Quest has had to spend, if any, to come into compliance?

Mike doesn't like criticism. It shows. Neither does Barry, neither does the other fellow on the forum who tried to put his spin on things. Back when I had the chance to speak with Mike directly, he came across the same way. His voice crackled with self-righteousness about the issue of motors, demanding "What haven't we done for you? What (engines) have we not given to you?", as if we should be eternally grateful for the few meager selections they dole out, or as if to say, if Estes isn't offering it we don't need it.

Carl, maybe the best thing to do for now is just let him and the others rant, and you sit back and absorb the carnage from a distance. Glean all you can, but don't engage them directly. You'll hear everything you need in time...
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  #2  
Old 04-19-2009, 09:50 PM
James Pierson James Pierson is offline
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If I might quote a Classic movie,

"I'm with you Boys"

Delmar form O' Brother Where Art Thou,

My true opinion of these Estes folks is best left unsaid.

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Old 04-19-2009, 09:58 PM
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Sheryl has kept me from posting until now. He is showing the side that I have been warned about from many of his friends. I have been privy to many of his emails and Barry's emails that show the level of contempt they have for "forum people" and "hobbyests."

They must really be hurting financially, for them to be courting the hundred or so faithful that they threw overboard so many years ago.
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl@Semroc
Sheryl has kept me from posting until now. He is showing the side that I have been warned about from many of his friends. I have been privy to many of his emails and Barry's emails that show the level of contempt they have for "forum people" and "hobbyests."

They must really be hurting financially, for them to be courting the hundred or so faithful that they threw overboard so many years ago.


Smart girl, that Sheryl!

Mike certainly has made valuable contributions to the hobby, and I'm not trying to take away any valid credit for his talent. I'm wondering about their overall financial health. If I understand this sale of the company correctly, there are two prospective buyers interested: A toy company, and a group of hobby-oriented rocketry-friendly business types. Could this be an indicator that the hobby interests are getting stronger, and that Mike and his gang are trying to keep their jobs for a while longer? Maybe all of this talk about "retirement" is just a smoke screen to mask a very real fear of being ousted completely?
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:01 AM
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I was gone all weekend and just came home to this mess.
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltvscout
I was gone all weekend and just came home to this mess.


Well, it wasn't me...I've been standing in the corner just listening.
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:29 AM
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I'm almost sure it was Irvine. Knowing Jerry, if you go through his posts over the weekend there are subtle, between the line comments meant to get under Mike's skin, which, yes is thin. It worked.
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle3
I'm almost sure it was Irvine. Knowing Jerry, if you go through his posts over the weekend there are subtle, between the line comments meant to get under Mike's skin, which, yes is thin. It worked.

The only thing I saw was the F62 thing from Jerry. All the rest of the posts from him this past weekend seemed fine.
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:54 AM
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Don't think of Jerry's compliments as sincere. They're not and never are. That said, I'm surprised this lasted as long as it did (I'm also surprised Jerry has avoided getting banned for this long). If it wasn't Irvine it would have been something else. Carl is on track regarding Mike. He has a temper and it usually doesn't serve him well. However, I regard Mike as a long time friend. There are all types of personalities in rocketry. I can be friends with most, even Kaplow.

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Old 04-20-2009, 09:12 AM
foose4string foose4string is offline
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I shouldn't have commented, but I wanted him to see there is a place for everyone in this hobby. More kits out there=more motors being burned, which is only good for them. It was clear they didn't want to release any of the classics or do any "bring backs" until Semroc was in full swing and after we were "heard" on the various forums. They are clearly watching Semroc(and maybe some of the other vendors to a lesser degree)... and it shows. The new line of kits is a prime example that they are trying to win us back. The "we went balsa because you asked for it" is a load you know what. That may very well be part of it, but it sounds like they were more interested in compliance than anything else. They figured they'd kill two birds with one stone. Carl, I wouldn't worry about the bully tactics. Let the chips fall where they may.

You are doing a great service for all of us by providing kits, parts, and building possibilities that could never exist without Semroc.... and done without a bunch of chest pounding, I might add. Just some friendly NC folk with outstanding service and product.


Now, get that darn motor machine working. That'll REALLY give 'em something to whine about!
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