Ted............if you bought the Camroc Christmas card from me, then I know the one you're talking about. That card was really sent out to those who had ordered Camrocs, which were delayed in their production. Because they were due to be released late 1965 (the 651 catalog, which included the Camroc, came out in the Fall of '65) it was right around Christmas when Estes had to announce the delay. So Estes opted to make the announcement in the form of a Christmas card..............quite rare, by the way.

Joe

Sticking with the title of the thread, History of the Camroc, there is an illustration of the first ever Camroc photo (taken on a hand-cut piece of film) in a Bill Simon article in Model Rocket News Vol. 10 No. 1.

Joe

Joe:

thanks for the rocketry history nugget!

That issue is at Ye Old Rocket Shoppe Publications.

I was looking through my archive and found an article dated April 1965 where the Camroc is first mentioned, along with a Camroc photo of Estes Industries. Due to QC l issues viz a vi the thin walled plastic used in the Camroc which resulted in some subsequent production problems, the CAMROC first showed up in the Estes 651 Color 1966 catalog; although the article states the CAMROC would be released in MAy 1965. . Perhaps Bill Simon could add some info here?

can anybody state when the 651 1966 Estes catalog was 1st released ?

IF you have the Collectors Journal, it should have the date in there.
In fact, it would great if somebody might post the dates the 60's and early 70's catalogs were actually released would be helpful.

In addition, there may be some information about the CAMROC located in the "Launch Pads" internal Estes newspaper.

I can remember both the 66 catalog as it was my 1st Estes catalog and also owning a CAMROC in 1967.

hth
terry dean
nar 16158

__________________
"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP".....unless you 3D print them.

I was just reading that somewhere the other day, but darned if I can remember where! I'm certain it was in the Fall of 1965..................and if memory serves me well (at my age, don't count on it!) it was September.

Joe

EDIT..............found it! This is contained in Part Three of a Sport Rocketry Magazine article on Vern Estes' web site. Check out the text associated with the chart. And look at the sales increase in NOV and DEC as a result of the 651 mailing!

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Do you think Vern used the "HIT" cameras as a starting point? What did a proto Camroc look like? Looking at a 1965 Handbook I see the cameras of Lewis Dewart, Dennis Guill, and even the movie camara of Charles and Paul Hans as good proto material. (Don't hijack this thread toward the Cineroc, that comes next! I did just bought a Bosley on Ebay!!!!)

At NARAM-3 at Hogback Rocket Range , outside Denver, Co in August 1961, Vern Estes put on quite an extensive manufacturer demonstration including demoing the new "Electro-Launch" ; the "B16" and throwing up multiple flights of the then revolutionary Astron Space Plane. It's highly possible that Vern Estes may have been a R&D judge?

At this NARAM-3, a modeler by the name of Horst Schneider entered a camera rocket in R&D competition, that G. Harry Stine described as, " the simplest thing I had ever seen". Horst had designed the camera within the body of the model itself, with the idea that it should be in the capabaility of young rocketeers with minimal tools required to build it. G. Harry continues, " It employed a simple surplus-store lens and off the shelf wooden parts." Horst took a photo using his camera rocket in flight and developed the film right on the range! The only problem was that it took a photo of a cloud and not the ground.

Is G. Harry describing a proto-CAMROC here? How much simpler can you get than when the ejection charge pops off the nose cone camera, the shutter is tripped?


Ted, Dear Mr. Estes........

EDIT

also Ted, how about a scan of that Xmas card? Innreturn I'll post that 1st known camroc photo. I gather you are writing an article on the history of the CAMROC?

hth

terry dean
nar 16158

__________________
"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP".....unless you 3D print them.

I am wriiting an article! I'll scan the Christmas Card as I can (I am recovering from brain surgery!) I have been in touch with Vern and I expect a flood of info soon. Part of this article will be new original photos taken with my vintage Camroc. I have a high res scan already of the first photo!! It is cool. I plan to use a HIT camera to recreate the early camera model rockets. I also plan an artcle on Maul's rocket. I have seen his rocket in Germany.

Did you take any hi-res pics of the Maul Camera Rocket? I have the patent application if you would like that. Pete Alway's has a scale modeles book that has a drawing of the Maul camera rocket in it. I also have a very old article from approx. 1917 about the Maul camera Rocket that has some great graphics that I could also send you for your article.

If you want to take this offline you can always pm me or preferably email me.

also attached is a photo of a Bolsey 8mm movie camera that the Han's used in their rocket.

hth
Terry Dean
nar 16158

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__________________
"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP".....unless you 3D print them.

Roll film is no good for use in a Camroc, I tried. I ordered some sheet film.

Anyone placed a glass lens? I jave the Richard Fox article on glass lenses. Can someone point me in right drection for a glass lens? Man, Edmund is proud of their's!

How are you planning on cutting the film? Just curious what you plan to do.