Where the holy heck have you been?

SEMROC discontinued a bunch of kits and tubes because they cannot get them.


Bill

__________________
It is well past time to Drill, Baby, Drill!

If your June, July, August and September was like this, you might just hate summer too...

Please unload your question before you ask it unless you have a concealed harry permit.

: countdown begin cr dup . 1- ?dup 0= until cr ." Launch!" cr ;

Give a man a rocket and he will fly for a day; teach him to build and he will spend the rest of his days sanding...

I think you miss my point. I'm just trying to unpack what you wrote, and invite discussion - rhetoric, dialectic, argument and all that. And yes, I am aware of the tube thing. Are you aware that eRockets has restocked certain "discontinued" tubes? It's not the end of the world.

The context is in Jeff Bezos, or some other sugar daddy, coming in with blue sky money to save us from ... whatever... What you, the OP, wrote. I used your tube example.

So when you say "our hobby is facing a serious problem," and Jeff Bezos "...should be motivated to help inspire future aerospace engineers" by sourcing some quality cardboard tubes for "the hobby," I disagree. I think you are conflating entities and issues that are separate.

If we throw enough money at the tube problem, are we saving the hobby or saving Estes? Are they (the hobby and Estes) the same?

I believe that asking someone to invest in a company (Estes) is very different than asking someone to support the hobby (with money) because they flew rockets as a child; nostalgia, pay forward, think of the kids, etc. are intangible "feel good" factors to consider. I believe that the two are not the same.

__________________
-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President

Uh, https://forums.rocketshoppe.com/sho...407&postcount=4

Do you remember posting this? https://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=22032

BT-56 is still among the missing and ST-13 is as well unless you are satisfied with short lengths.



Not if you are satisfied with a smaller selection of kits and parts for scratch building at any kind of reasonable price.

https://forums.rocketshoppe.com/sho...758&postcount=5



Someone who buys a starter set and flies a few times then stuffs it into the closet is not likely to be inspired to go into a career in aerospace.

Other than (T)ARC, it is the serious rocketeer who is engaged for several teen years who does.

A wide selection of different kits and parts is necessary to hold the attention of a young person, especially today with "screens" everywhere.

For someone like Bezos or Musk, who depend on the availability of aerospace workers, a few million is a small amount to invest to "fix" Euclid or some other company.


They are effectively the same. Estes is the only company many ever see. There may be quest or AeroTech products in a few stores, the days of seeing SEMROC or FlisKits hanging on a peg in a retail store are long gone.

Investing in Euclid or some other paper product manufacturer is much more likely to help everyone and not just Estes.


Another big way to support the hobby is to help the local clubs. But that is not as easy because a single focus does not do it.


Bill

__________________
It is well past time to Drill, Baby, Drill!

If your June, July, August and September was like this, you might just hate summer too...

Please unload your question before you ask it unless you have a concealed harry permit.

: countdown begin cr dup . 1- ?dup 0= until cr ." Launch!" cr ;

Give a man a rocket and he will fly for a day; teach him to build and he will spend the rest of his days sanding...

Yeah, so? The lack of 1.35" diameter tubing isn't going to crash the hobby. It's not going to cause some kid not to pursue a career in aerospace. Vendors like Apogee and eRockets offer a very large variety of tubes, kits, motors - more than enough to stimulate enthusiasm in the hobby.

This is what most people did with their rockets for the past 65 years. The hobby has always been rather small. And despite the lack of ST-13 tubing, we are right now living in a Golden Age of the hobby. We've never had such a variety of products.

Well, it's not easy because no one wants to do it, and not because of money. Beleaguered NAR Section members can't get help, and we're not getting any younger. Not even the NAR brass is into "local" and tend to place their focus on "national." Big national rocketry, big events, and big statistics is their world. The NAR markets clubs as a benefit to membership, and shows all these pictures of big rockets being launched off of some huge field someplace. Some clubs are like that.

You hooked in locally?

__________________
-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President

That was but just one example. Don't take it so literally.

Much of SEMROC's "odd" size tubing is stock on hand. When it is gone, it is gone. The number of discontinued kits is an indication of the end of Carl's philosophy.

BT-56 was a key feature in the Estes Small TARC Parts assortment. Hopefully, the ARC organizers take that into account when formulating future rules.


In my mind, there were two golden ages.

The first was during the heyday of the Apollo program.

The second was the latter part of the 2000 decade, when SEMROC and FlisKits were at their prime. We have lost many independent kit manufacturers since then. Sure some have sprouted to take their places, but it is not the same.


Money is not the answer to local clubs' challenges unless it is huge money to obtain flying fields and hire people to do the unglamorous and tedious work which makes a club function.

While the spring and fall sport launches do well, NARAM is hurting. Where will NAR be with their beloved (T)ARC program without local club support?


I served many years as secretary of the local club and wrote a column in the newsletter, among other things.

You?


Bill

__________________
It is well past time to Drill, Baby, Drill!

If your June, July, August and September was like this, you might just hate summer too...

Please unload your question before you ask it unless you have a concealed harry permit.

: countdown begin cr dup . 1- ?dup 0= until cr ." Launch!" cr ;

Give a man a rocket and he will fly for a day; teach him to build and he will spend the rest of his days sanding...

We'll just have to disagree about the tubes. I just browsed through eRockets parts offerings. What I saw was encouraging rather than discouraging. When browsing parts offerings can rekindle ideas and imagination, it's pretty good.



I'm kind of glad NARAM is "hurting," and I am a fan of NAR competition going back to the 1970s. "Hurting" is a matter of opinion, in my opinion. If growth, growth, growth, and only growth is your metric, then NARAM is indeed hurting. We even had some troll on here heralding the "Death of NARAM" which would lead to really, really bad things for the hobby that old age and health problems could not overcome.

My witness is that over the years people with good intentions kept piling more and more things into NARAM that it grew into some big, fat MONSTER that was difficult for an ordinary NAR Section to host. NARAM needs to shrink down to an appropriate size for the smaller numbers of people that enjoy that sort of activity. NARAM needs to return to being the thing that it was - a national championship. Use an early NARAM, like NARAM-8 or 10 as a model. Gone would be all the expected whistles and bells, like the make it take it booth, sport launch ranges, large enough field for Level 3 high power support, ridiculously huge trophies, a venue for the BOD meetings with coffee service, etc.

But most people would disagree with me, a la "if you can't go BIG, go home."

As for local sections and TARC, we haven't been approached for TARC stuff for years.

Oh, and Jeff Bezos can't really help me out with any of this right now, IMHO.

I've been a NAR Section President, Launch Directior, and Chief Gopher for the past few years. Before then going back to the 1990s I've always been a NAR Section Officer, President, Senior Advisor, Secretary, Gopher, Contest Director, etc. I had a break for a few years 2004-2010.

__________________
-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President

Not to derail this thread too much.

I believe there have been at least THREE 'Golden Ages' of model rocketry.

The second was from 1985 to 1993 (Give or take).

MRC, widespread availability of composite motors, Apogee, AeroTech, Quest, etc.

I plan to write an article for Sport Rocketry in the future detailing this era.

__________________
Bob
S.A.M. # 0014

The rise of 'recognized' high-power rocketry during that aforementioned era was a huge uptick in rocketry at the time.

Earl

__________________
Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970

I am DEFINITELY of the opinion for a NATIONAL Meet, "If you can't go BIG, go HOME".
If no room for at least HPR sport range, it should be DITCHED.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, TURMOIL, FIASCOS, and HAVOC !

So....will we see you in Pueblo in August then?

__________________
Bernard Cawley
NAR 89040 L1 - Life Member
SAM 0061
AMA 42160
KG7AIE