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  #11  
Old 04-08-2021, 06:46 PM
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georgegassaway georgegassaway is offline
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Back to the original question...

I do not know what those are.

But in aerospace, pretty much any individual part that is uniquely red, is a "remove before flight" item.

Below is a photo of a rollout, in French Guyana, which does not have the red "buckets". The nozzles are not red, they have red covers, for example (same for U.S. Saturn stages for transport, at least before stack assembly).



The "Soyuz" launch vehicle, is mostly the same booster, originally created in the mid 1950's as an ICBM, that launched Sputnik-1, many other satellites, Vostok, Voskhod, and of course Soyuz. The main upgrades were for upper stages.

Anyway, the first stage steering is interesting. The five "engines" have four main chambers each, which do not gimbal. The outer boosters have two small vernier engines that gimbal, and the center core had eight verniers that gimbal., for steering.
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Last edited by georgegassaway : 04-08-2021 at 08:55 PM.
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  #12  
Old 04-08-2021, 08:42 PM
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When I built my Soyuz I included those buckets on the finished model.
I didn't know what they were, I was just working from a photo similar to the one above.
I do remember thinking it was odd that they were all oriented in the same direction.
Didn't occur to me at the time that they might be removable components.
Guess I got that part wrong.
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  #13  
Old 04-09-2021, 07:00 AM
frognbuff frognbuff is offline
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So, we have a remove-before-flight bucket designed to catch some sort of fluid which might overflow during roll-to-pad? That makes sense. As for Kourou, perhaps the fluid in question isn't added when they roll out. They have a tower for vertical payload mate in Kourou, so maybe they add whatever it is after going vertical - so no need to catch slop during roll?

I suppose another option is something needed for the cold of Russia or Kazakhstan vs. the heat of the jungle. Any photos of a roll-out in Russia or Kazakhstan without buckets? And if so, was it summer or winter?
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  #14  
Old 04-09-2021, 08:17 AM
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Some of the buckets are mounted high, others low on the boosters. The high ones wouldn't be too good at catching fluids. That's why I'm intrigued. For fluids that come out during transition to vertical, you'd think they would just have cans sitting on the ground to attach the hoses to.

I've always assumed they transported the boosters empty. They don't need pressurization to stay together so it shouldn't be any residuals from the main tanks. If you've seen the depleted boosters after they crash land back on earth, they are still in remarkably good condition.

Could there be a subsystem that has something that boils off and needs a catch can like some folks do with vapors coming out of engine valve covers? The hoses terminate into a blanket covered area of the booster.
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Old 04-09-2021, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgegassaway
Anyway, the first stage steering is interesting. The five "engines" have four main chambers each, which do not gimbal. The outer boosters have two small vernier engines that gimbal, and the center core had eight verniers that gimbal., for steering.

Yes, and the verniers only gimbal on one axis. From the images, it looks like they pivot near or below their CG like a see-saw instead of being anchored at the "top" like most of our engines.

The US program's most famous (easily visible) verniers were on the Atlas, but also on the Thor. They were used to control roll because the main engine could only control pitch and yaw. The Soyuz verniers control everything.
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Last edited by tbzep : 04-09-2021 at 09:59 AM.
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  #16  
Old 04-09-2021, 09:50 AM
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I've got it! I've got it!

The buckets!

...are "pail" riders!
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  #17  
Old 04-09-2021, 09:58 AM
TigerHawk TigerHawk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffyjeep
I've got it! I've got it!

The buckets!

...are "pail" riders!


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  #18  
Old 04-09-2021, 10:04 AM
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But seriously, I like my F.O.D. collection buckets theory. At McDonnell/Douglass (now Boeing) in Berkeley, MO I would see them everywhere a wing or a pylon was being assembled or repaired. Foreign Object Debris can be a death sentence for a pilot and a career ender for an assembler--so they're very serious about keeping track of it.
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Last edited by jeffyjeep : 04-09-2021 at 01:17 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-09-2021, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
Yes, and the verniers only gimbal on one axis. From the images, it looks like they pivot near or below their CG like a see-saw instead of being anchored at the "top" like most of our engines.

The US program's most famous (easily visible) verniers were on the Atlas, but also on the Thor. They were used to control roll because the main engine could only control pitch and yaw. The Soyuz verniers control everything.


By definition, the verniers are hinged (2D motion) not gimbaled (3D motion).
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  #20  
Old 04-09-2021, 01:26 PM
frognbuff frognbuff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
Some of the buckets are mounted high, others low on the boosters. The high ones wouldn't be too good at catching fluids. That's why I'm intrigued. For fluids that come out during transition to vertical, you'd think they would just have cans sitting on the ground to attach the hoses to.

I've always assumed they transported the boosters empty. They don't need pressurization to stay together so it shouldn't be any residuals from the main tanks. If you've seen the depleted boosters after they crash land back on earth, they are still in remarkably good condition.

Could there be a subsystem that has something that boils off and needs a catch can like some folks do with vapors coming out of engine valve covers? The hoses terminate into a blanket covered area of the booster.


The buckets are actually mounted in the exact same spot on each strap-on booster - just oriented so the attached hose or electrical cord is pointed "up." If it were electrical, you probably wouldn't bother pointing it in a particular direction (electrons don't care), which is why I still think it is somehow related to fluids. Wish I could see where that hose terminates!
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