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  #1  
Old 01-03-2021, 03:19 PM
MarkB.'s Avatar
MarkB. MarkB. is offline
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Location: El Paso
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Default Sonda II

Comrades:

Here's a fun, quick build of the Brazilian Sonda IIB (or Zonda in some sources). It's nominal 1/10 scale. It's slightly larger than the ASP kit. I used Peter Alway's Rockets of the World drawing. I blew it up 288% for full size drawings. If anybody wants a good picture of the fin pattern on a one inch grid, let me know. I built for 18mm power.

SEM-ST-11180 body tube cut to 16.8125"
SEM -BC-1155 nose
SEM-CR-20-11EH centering rings
SEM-BT-20J engine tube for 18mm power

engine hook
motor block
screw eye
2" launch lug
1.5" x 3.75" cardstock for fin can wrap
2'"x 1.875" cardstock launch lug shim
parachute 12" to 15"
elastic
Kevlar
1/16 basswood for fins

The only thing tricky about this build is the wrap of cardstock under the fins and the need to use small scraps of cardstock to shim the front of the fins. A small fillet of glue blends the whole thing together and the shim disappears under the paint.

The first picture shows the fixin's. The second picture shows the (mostly) finished product under today's bright Texas sun. Paint is Rustoleum Flat White and Flat Black. The black section was sprayed first and then masked off with 1/4" strips of blue tape and then the white was sprayed over everything. Everything got a light coat of acrylic matte clear. It still needs fluorescent red fins and a wrap at the top but I have yet to find a good red spray; they're all too pink or too orange. It is ready for launch.

The last picture is my 1/10 scale Rockets of the Americas so far: Canada, US, Mexico and Brazil, from left to right. I still need Argentina for sure and maybe Peru. I'm drawing an Argentine Canopus for a build later this year. I saw something on Peruvian rockets a couple of months ago but I haven't been able to relocate it.
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__________________
Identifying a problem without proposing a solution is really just whining.

NAR 79743
NARTrek Silver
SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Aero-Dart; Tomahawk 12; Tomahawk 9; Paiute; Tomahawk 7; Rescue Aerobees(2); Timm Arcas; Sonda II; Nike-Ram (2); Centuri Screaming Eagle
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas
Repair/Rescue:
On the Bench:
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7; 1/10 SA-2
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  #2  
Old 01-04-2021, 04:00 PM
PeterAlway PeterAlway is offline
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Posts: 67
Default

It's nice to see that collection. I don't see the Mexican SCT-1 often! And it's nice to hear that my drawings are being used. The Peruvian rocket you fount was the Paulet (after a peruvian who built and static-tested (but didn't fly) a liquid propellant rocket in Europe in the 20's (plus or minus a decade).

I just googled coheta paulet and found a bunch of links.

I don't know if you've found the page with a whole bunch of Argentinian drawings. I can't seem to find it now, but some of the drawings are scattered about. I googled Cohetas argentina, and found this tidbit: https://www.histarmar.com.ar/AVIACI...adelEspacio.htm

I rely on Google translate to make sense of the text.
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2021, 08:55 PM
MarkB.'s Avatar
MarkB. MarkB. is offline
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Location: El Paso
Posts: 1,044
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Thanks, Peter,

I actually found the Argentine drawings here on YORF in one of Blackshire's posts. They appear to be drawn by Polish modelers. Three pages of drawings of various combinations of sounding rockets, some of which flew from Wallops. The most likely candidate is a Canopus II, which needs a 28mm or 1.1 inch body tube at 1/10 scale and would be about 18" tall or slightly smaller than the Sonda.

I did follow the Peruvian links, Thank You very much. I'm going to try and build both sometime this year. I'll post pictures.
__________________
Identifying a problem without proposing a solution is really just whining.

NAR 79743
NARTrek Silver
SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Aero-Dart; Tomahawk 12; Tomahawk 9; Paiute; Tomahawk 7; Rescue Aerobees(2); Timm Arcas; Sonda II; Nike-Ram (2); Centuri Screaming Eagle
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas
Repair/Rescue:
On the Bench:
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7; 1/10 SA-2
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  #4  
Old 01-05-2021, 06:27 AM
frognbuff frognbuff is offline
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Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 385
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Polish sources would explain the "Zonda" misspelling. It really IS a misspelling, as "Sonda" comes from the original Portuguese.
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  #5  
Old 01-06-2021, 07:05 AM
cardonet cardonet is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB.
Thanks, Peter,

I actually found the Argentine drawings here on YORF in one of Blackshire's posts. They appear to be drawn by Polish modelers. Three pages of drawings of various combinations of sounding rockets, some of which flew from Wallops. The most likely candidate is a Canopus II, which needs a 28mm or 1.1 inch body tube at 1/10 scale and would be about 18" tall or slightly smaller than the Sonda.

I did follow the Peruvian links, Thank You very much. I'm going to try and build both sometime this year. I'll post pictures.


Here is the only information I found on the dimensions of the Paulet rocket
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  #6  
Old 01-06-2021, 08:44 PM
MarkB.'s Avatar
MarkB. MarkB. is offline
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Posts: 1,044
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Cardonet,

Thank you for sharing. At this point, it's the best lead I have.

But . . . .

I've attached a drawing from Blackshire's Argentine posts in the archives. Note that the dimensions from the Orion 1 Argentine rocket from 1965 are identical in every single measurement. Even the fin shape is the same.

I'm not sure what to make of that.
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__________________
Identifying a problem without proposing a solution is really just whining.

NAR 79743
NARTrek Silver
SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Aero-Dart; Tomahawk 12; Tomahawk 9; Paiute; Tomahawk 7; Rescue Aerobees(2); Timm Arcas; Sonda II; Nike-Ram (2); Centuri Screaming Eagle
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas
Repair/Rescue:
On the Bench:
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7; 1/10 SA-2
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  #7  
Old 01-07-2021, 02:51 AM
cardonet cardonet is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB.
Cardonet,

Thank you for sharing. At this point, it's the best lead I have.

But . . . .

I've attached a drawing from Blackshire's Argentine posts in the archives. Note that the dimensions from the Orion 1 Argentine rocket from 1965 are identical in every single measurement. Even the fin shape is the same.

I'm not sure what to make of that.


I found this information on a PowerPoint presentation that can be downloaded at:
https://slideplayer.es/slide/5828423/

The illustrations are of various origins, and indeed, it is not certain that all the dimensions are correct.

The (apparently) official document that can be uploaded at:
http://docs.seace.gob.pe/mon/docs/p...ONIDA-BASES.pdf
confirms that the grain is 203mm in diameter and 750mm in length and that it uses a PVC binder.

So I have the impression that the Paulet rocket is a Peruvian version of the Argentinian Orion. The Orion used a French grain with PVC binder (Plastolite) 203 mm in diameter

We know that the first two: Paulet I (December 26, 2006) and Paulet IB (September 02, 2009) used a "foreign propellant", while the other two: XPAX II (September 30, 2011) and Paulet IM (June 13, 2013) used a "national propellant".

In the photos, we see that the first two had trapezoidal fins while the other two have rectangular fins.

Two launches are expected this year. I think that this long wait is linked to the replacement of the propellant by a propellant with a polyurethane binder.
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  #8  
Old 01-07-2021, 07:29 AM
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MarkB. MarkB. is offline
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Location: El Paso
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If you thought 2020 was strange . . . .

In addition to national craziness, the seventh day of 2021 on YORF has me reading an eleven-year old Peruvian legal brief, in Spanish, with scale information on an obscure, small sounding rocket program.

This is gonna be great.



Attached is a .pdf, in English, giving a brief history of the Peruvian space program through 2010, confirming the Argentine influence. It's a quick read and interesting in it's American connections. Can there be a better name for a launch site than "Punta Lobo?"


Thanks again for the leads, Cardonet.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf AIAA-2010-2043-194.pdf (377.9 KB, 8 views)
__________________
Identifying a problem without proposing a solution is really just whining.

NAR 79743
NARTrek Silver
SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Aero-Dart; Tomahawk 12; Tomahawk 9; Paiute; Tomahawk 7; Rescue Aerobees(2); Timm Arcas; Sonda II; Nike-Ram (2); Centuri Screaming Eagle
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas
Repair/Rescue:
On the Bench:
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7; 1/10 SA-2
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  #9  
Old 01-07-2021, 09:00 AM
cardonet cardonet is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB.
If you thought 2020 was strange . . . .

In addition to national craziness, the seventh day of 2021 on YORF has me reading an eleven-year old Peruvian legal brief, in Spanish, with scale information on an obscure, small sounding rocket program.

This is gonna be great.



Attached is a .pdf, in English, giving a brief history of the Peruvian space program through 2010, confirming the Argentine influence. It's a quick read and interesting in it's American connections. Can there be a better name for a launch site than "Punta Lobo?"


Thanks again for the leads, Cardonet.


You are welcome, MarkB

The launch of the Paulet 1C and Paulet 1D rockets in 2021 was announced in early December 2020.
https://andina.pe/agencia/noticia-p...021-824359.aspx

Interesting information about the Paulet rocket program can be found in an article in this Argentine journal (in Spanish, of course).
https://www.esga.mil.ar/Newberiano/...UBRE%202014.pdf

The article begins on page 35, and the part dealing with the Paulet rockets on p. 38. The collaboration between Peru and Argentina is described starting on p. 45.

The author mentions (p.49) a fact that occurred in 2005:
« It was then the astonished discovery (...) of eleven propellant grains of French origin, similar to those used by the ORION I. Amen to find in the same deposit or magazine a large quantity in barrels of ammonium perchlorate and plastic binder of HTPB. The grains deposited in wooden crates had been donated, many years ago, by Argentina. This on the occasion of the "Castor".
This was not all, at the CONIDA facilities there was a complete ORION II “disassembled” and other parts and components undoubtedly also donated. Perhaps an explanation of why the pre-design of the PAULET I. »

And on p.52:
« The propellant grains used in Paulet I and later in Paulet IM were part, as has been stated, of an Argentine donation in 1982, within the CASTOR project. The age of this grain of French origin was 40 years. Its useful life according to the standards and its manual was stipulated in… one year !!!. »
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  #10  
Old 01-07-2021, 11:22 AM
Ez2cDave's Avatar
Ez2cDave Ez2cDave is offline
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A few items . . .

Dave F.
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