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  #11  
Old 08-06-2020, 02:29 PM
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astronwolf astronwolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaquin
In the picture you posted the nose cone appears to be black on ACE Mongrel #1. In another picture from LDRS-1 where Heidi Smakula is holding the Mongrel the nose cone appears to be blue. Is that just the direct sunlight shining on a black nose cone or is it blue? The red fin is also visible in this picture.

Chris thought it was black. Maybe it really was blue? It would go with the fin color. I'll be sharing some new info soon.
-W
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  #12  
Old 08-07-2020, 12:38 PM
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The ongoing effort to come up with clonable plans for the Ace Mongrel continues.

Curt Hughes flew an Ace Mongrel at LDRS-1 too. Curt's Mongrel also flew with three motors like Chris Pearson's, but instead of three FSI F100 motors, Curt used a 29mm H160 and two outboard D11 motors for the ejection charge. Curt's first Mongrel is pictured below. It was severely damaged by a zipper on its second flight.

Curt built a second Mongrel for LDRS-2, but didn't fly it. This model is pictured below. Curt gave this model to Chris Pearson a couple days ago, and I was over Chris' house last night getting dimensions. My earlier attempts at determining dimensional data off of photos was pretty close. But having a real Mongrel rocket to measure is of course the best way to go.
-W
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  #13  
Old 08-07-2020, 02:13 PM
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Earl Earl is offline
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Back in 2001 for my LDRS-20 video (held at Lucerne Dry Lake, CA), I had gotten in touch with Warren Sisco who had attended LDRS-1 and who had shot some 8mm home movie footage (footage as in real 'film'...not 8mm video) of the event.

Warren loaned his footage to me and I had it digitally transferred and I worked selected highlights of the footage into the LDRS-20 production as a 'look back' to the very first LDRS event and how it contrasted with the state of the art as of LDRS-20. I also interspersed some interview footage I had shot with Chris at LDRS-19 in Orangeburg, SC, where I had Chris talk about that first LDRS and his founding of the LDRS launch series.

The home movie footage, as that type footage typically goes, is not the best and is overexposed in a number of places. But, overall it does seem to capture the flavor of the event and may be the only 'motion picture' footage of the event. The inclusion of the clips in the LDRS-20 video was the first time anyone outside of Warren and maybe a few others had seen the footage.

Attached is a frame grab from one of those clips. It appears to be an Ace Mongrel, best I can tell, and maybe it is the one Heidi is holding in the group shot. If so, it appears it DOES have a black nose cone.

Earl
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  #14  
Old 08-07-2020, 03:05 PM
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astronwolf astronwolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
If so, it appears it DOES have a black nose cone.

Chris was emphatic that it was black.

Any chance of putting that movie on YouTube?
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  #15  
Old 08-07-2020, 03:15 PM
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astronwolf astronwolf is offline
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Ace Mongrel

Dimensional data from original parts and a complete rocket circa 1980-1982

There was a lot of variation between each fin on the Mongrel - each fin was slightly different. This was a real mutt of a rocket. These are averages. The root chord and leading edge sweepback were pretty consistent from fin to fin.

Root chord - 8-1/2"
Tip chord - 3-1/4"
Semi-span forward - 4-1/4"
Semi-span aft - 4-7/16"
Leading edge sweep back - 7-3/8"
Trailing edge sweep back - 2.125"

The variation in the fin span wasn't pronounced. One can make the root and tip chords parallel, and still call it a Mongrel. The trailing edge of the fins met the airframe 1/2" above the aft end of the airframe.

Likewise the all balsa nose cones were different. Chris' Mongrel nose cone was a 17-3/4" long ogive (exposed length) while Curt's model was a 16-5/16" secant ogive. Truly a mongrel rocket.

Airframe - 34" long by 3.97" diameter (called, BT-39, back in the day. Close to BT-101) The airframe was slotted by the builder, and the fin tabs extended to the outboard motors - not the central motor. Thus the fin tab height wasn't very much - maybe a bit over 1/8".

Motor mount - 5x29mm with two centering rings at fin tabs. Motor mount tubing was 12" long.

two half-inch launch lugs, 3-1/4" long

36" military surplus silk parachute
Attached Files
File Type: ork Ace Mongrel original 1980.ork (1.9 KB, 6 views)
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  #16  
Old 08-07-2020, 03:18 PM
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Pics of Curt Hughes model
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  #17  
Old 08-07-2020, 04:30 PM
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Ltvscout Ltvscout is offline
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Great stuff, Wolf. Thanks!
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  #18  
Old 08-07-2020, 05:29 PM
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+1 to what Scott said ... very cool. Thanks for sourcing accurate details.
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  #19  
Old 08-09-2020, 05:39 PM
J Blatz J Blatz is offline
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OK, I love this thread. Thank you.

Can I ask - who designed this thing? Was it Pearson? Or was it Kline, or Irvine?

I have a CRM magazine circa 4/83 which has picture of Jerry I holding a Mongrel, and caption beneth says "Jerry Irvine holds his original Mongrel rocket". Photo is B/W. The rocket itself looks real similar to what we has been discussed thus far, tho the paint is not the same as Chris Pearson's.

I have no dog in the fight (and am course aware that CRM was published by JI), all three guys I just named were pivotal in the development of the hobby, just asking if anyone knows who designed the rocket.
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  #20  
Old 08-09-2020, 08:41 PM
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astronwolf astronwolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Blatz
OK, I love this thread. Thank you.

Can I ask - who designed this thing? Was it Pearson? Or was it Kline, or Irvine?

The desinger and guy who kitted the Mongrel was Korey Kline. Jerry wrote up some of the kit insert stuff on the original Mongrel for Korey. Pearson bought kit #1 from Korey. Later, Jerry offered an uprated version of the original - longer and the fins were a little different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Blatz
I have a CRM magazine circa 4/83 which has picture of Jerry I holding a Mongrel, and caption beneth says "Jerry Irvine holds his original Mongrel rocket".

LOL ... I've seen the pic. Sure, it is a picture of Jerry, with an original Mongrel, that is his. Jerry, and an original Mongrel. LOL.
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