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  #1  
Old 07-26-2020, 04:20 PM
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Default ACE Mongrel

Been looking for a fin pattern for the Ace Rocket Manufacturing Mongrel. Any have one they can scan and share?

I'm interested in cloning the ACE Mongrel.
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Last edited by astronwolf : 07-28-2020 at 07:56 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-28-2020, 11:22 AM
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Chris Pearson and I are working on reproducing dimensional data so that we can clone the Mongrel in anticipation of the 40th anniverasry of LDRS-1. I am still working on getting the fin dimensions just right.

Chris shared these pics of an original, 40-year old, Ace balsa nose cone next to a PML plastic nose cone and gave me permission to share. Korey Kline made these balsa nose cones on a lathe in his garage, and there was a lot of variation in nose cone lengths. Chris's example is 17.75-inches long and has a 1.5-inch shoulder. The fiberglass extension is not original. Korey was a fan of long nose cones, and was known to make balsa nose cones with L/Ds as long as 5:1 and even 6:1. These were the early balsa nose cones that were in use before the advent of the famous ACE 4-inch plastic nose cone in the 1980s.

The one photo of an Ace Mongrel that one can easily find shows Chris standing next to Ace Mongrel kit #1. The black nose cone is all nose cone - long. It looks like a nose cone with a piece of body tube extention, but it isn't.

Mark Canepa's book, Large and Dangerous Rocket Ships, describes the Ace Mongrel kit in Chapter 3. He describes a rocket with 1/8" thick fins, an 18" nose cone, 4" diameter, that stood about 5-feet tall.
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Old 07-28-2020, 08:01 PM
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In case there are some who are interested in reproducing the color scheme of the first Ace Mongrel kit - please check out the attached photos. There were two blue fins, and a yellow fin. The previously unreleased photo of the launch of the Ace Mongrel at LDRS-1 (under all three F motors lit) shows the fourth red fin.
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Old 07-28-2020, 08:25 PM
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The NCR Phantom series, the 4000 in particular, looks like it was highly inspired by the Mongrel. The 4000 was my first high power kit really, though it was only intended to fly through G. I flew mine sometimes on Hs. The HD version though certainly was designed for larger motors. Never had it.

Chris is a great guy....been a pretty good while since I last spoke with him though.

Earl
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astronwolf
Been looking for a fin pattern for the Ace Rocket Manufacturing Mongrel. Any have one they can scan and share?

I'm interested in cloning the ACE Mongrel.
Very interesting thread Wolf and great information. I recognize the photo of Chris but I wasn't aware that was Ace Mongrel kit #1 or that the black nose cone pictured was all one long nose cone.

These are fin dimensions that I had saved. Compare with what you were working with in your file as I did not have a chance to download or view your OpenRocket file before you removed it.

4 Trapezoidal 1/8" Fins
Root Chord Length: 8"
Tip Cord Length: 2"
Sweep Length: 8"
Sweep Angle: 55 Deg.
Semi Span: 5.625"
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Last edited by snaquin : 07-28-2020 at 11:03 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  #6  
Old 07-29-2020, 08:23 AM
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That early ACE/PML nose cone comparison shows why I used an ACE 4" cone for my upscales that needed a PNC-60AH profile back in the early 90's. The longer body and rounded tip was much closer to the 60AH profile. I eventually started turning my own balsa upscales, but the ACE cones served me well in my early HP/EX days.

I like that #1 paint scheme.
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Old 07-29-2020, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaquin
These are fin dimensions that I had saved. Compare with what you were working with in your file as I did not have a chance to download or view your OpenRocket file before you removed it.

4 Trapezoidal 1/8" Fins
Root Chord Length: 8"
Tip Cord Length: 2"
Sweep Length: 8"
Sweep Angle: 55 Deg.
Semi Span: 5.625"


The .ork file that I put up there went out of date quickly.

I've encountered these fin dimensions in rocksim files of two U.S. Rockets versions of the Mongrel. These files can be found on the Rocket Reviews website . When I compare them to a photo of the original, the semi-span seems too wide and the tip cord too short. So I don't believe that these represent the original.

See attached drawings that illustrate what I see, and the .ork file.
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  #8  
Old 07-29-2020, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astronwolf
The .ork file that I put up there went out of date quickly.

I've encountered these fin dimensions in rocksim files of two U.S. Rockets versions of the Mongrel. These files can be found on the Rocket Reviews website . When I compare them to a photo of the original, the semi-span seems too wide and the tip cord too short. So I don't believe that these represent the original.

See attached drawings that illustrate what I see, and the .ork file.
Your rendering is definitely truer to what I see in the picture. Looks like you have it really close Wolf. I didn't realize U.S. Rockets ever offered a Mongrel kit but I do remember pictures from the old California Rocketry Magazines and other ACE stuff being in there.

I found those dimensions in a folder where I have some old plans for a LaserLOC, some NCR Hypersonic kits, and fin patterns and other HPR stuff I picked up around the time of LDRS-8. I thought possibly those dimensions could have come from the old Rogers Aeroscience ALT4 program when it ran in DOS and you had to call Fred Brennion every time you needed to upgrade the program! They had some kit examples in the program but I'm not really sure that's where those dimensions came from. I may have obtained them from my friend Scot that ran TRA HQ back then but I definitely had interest at the time of building a Mongrel one day because I saved them. I'll check out your .ork file when I get back later tonight, thanks
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  #9  
Old 07-31-2020, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astronwolf
Been looking for a fin pattern for the Ace Rocket Manufacturing Mongrel. Any have one they can scan and share?

I'm interested in cloning the ACE Mongrel.


Good afternoon, Wolf,

I have an unbuilt Ace Mongrel kit . . . I got it off of eBay, 4 or 5 years ago.

Wouldn't it be great, if I shared that info with you ?

But, on further reflection, I just remembered something else I need to do . . . Happy hunting !

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  #10  
Old 07-31-2020, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astronwolf
In case there are some who are interested in reproducing the color scheme of the first Ace Mongrel kit - please check out the attached photos. There were two blue fins, and a yellow fin. The previously unreleased photo of the launch of the Ace Mongrel at LDRS-1 (under all three F motors lit) shows the fourth red fin.
In the picture you posted the nose cone appears to be black on ACE Mongrel #1. In another picture from LDRS-1 where Heidi Smakula is holding the Mongrel the nose cone appears to be blue. Is that just the direct sunlight shining on a black nose cone or is it blue? The red fin is also visible in this picture.

http://www.northernohiotra.com/history/ldrshistory.html
.
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🚀 In Construction: Der Blue Maxx/Minie-Magg 5.5w/Stickershock23.com Custom Decals
🚀 In Paint & Detail: USR Banshee
🚀 In Build Queue: Estes Doorknob w/Vander-Burn Rocketry Upgrade Kit [Sport Decor], Semroc Centurion-F, Semroc Egg Crate.
🚀 In Repair: [On Hold] Semroc SLS Lil Hustler, Semroc SLS Aero-Dart 1969 Trim
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