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  #21  
Old 11-13-2018, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket.aero
Clustering is great as long as reliable igniters are available. I cannot imagine Estes offering a cluster product as long as the current igniter/starter product is included with their motors.

James


I did it when I was a kid back in the late 70's.
However, I've had no trouble igniting 3 and 4 motors with Estes igniters using a 12v gel cell on a relay system. The problem isn't the igniters, it's the wimpy little launch controllers.

The only time I have a failure with the clear dipped igniters is when the bridge is broken or I let someone else install them and they short them in the motor's throat. I always check each igniter's bridge individually before using them in a cluster and I make sure there is separation of the wires.

My son's SEMROC Saturn 1B on four B6's with Estes igniters.
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  #22  
Old 11-14-2018, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
I did it when I was a kid back in the late 70's. ;


Sure, we can cluster successfully using Estes igniters, but can the casual, average user who does not attend club launches and flies with his kids in the park do so? Probably not. Clustering was tough enough with the old Estes igniters, and the new "starters" haven't helped.

If Average American Dad™ were to build and fly a clustered Estes product today, the likely end result will be a warranty claim and a dissatisfied customer. Until the igniter product improves, I would not expect to see any cluster products from Estes.

James
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  #23  
Old 11-14-2018, 10:49 AM
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Agree about current Estes "starters"....absolutely awful unless you "dip" them.
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  #24  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket.aero
If Average American Dad™ were to build and fly a clustered Estes product today, the likely end result will be a warranty claim and a dissatisfied customer. Until the igniter product improves, I would not expect to see any cluster products from Estes.

Lol, you're right. The AAD™ today can barely start his car, much less do anything else requiring 5 minutes of reading/researching.

I don't expect to see clusters from Estes, but I do expect YORFers to have the ability to modify for clusters, 29mm mounts, interchangable mounts, etc. We are collectively smarter than the average bear.
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  #25  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Agree about current Estes "starters"....absolutely awful unless you "dip" them.

No worse than an Astron igniter or straight nichrome, but they are more fragile. Just think of all the successful clusters done in the old days with straight nichrome and a 12v battery!
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  #26  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
No worse than an Astron igniter or straight nichrome, but they are more fragile. Just think of all the successful clusters done in the old days with straight nichrome and a 12v battery!

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  #27  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:16 AM
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I bet if we could compile an accurate survey, the introduction of the four AA battery launch controller in 1974 caused a catastrophic decline in successful cluster launches considerably more so than Solar igniters. It would be hard to survey, because the two were introduced together.
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  #28  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:02 PM
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I would rather have plain nichrome and an Astron controller than the current fragile "starters".
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  #29  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I would rather have plain nichrome and an Astron controller than the current fragile "starters".

Based on some of the threads I've seen the last few years on various forums along with ebay sales, I'm sure several folks buy their own nichrome and use 12v for reliable ignition.
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  #30  
Old 11-14-2018, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
Based on some of the threads I've seen the last few years on various forums along with ebay sales, I'm sure several folks buy their own nichrome and use 12v for reliable ignition.


My use of nichrome is strictly for making my own igniters for small composite motors that have small nozzles and require something like the current FirstFire igniters from Aerotech. Those are great igniters but I am shocked at what they sell for.

I have had 100% success dipping the clear-tipped “starters” from Estes. I use NC lacquer and 4F BP. I read an article a few weeks ago that the clear dip on the Estes starters is water-soluble (and not a pyrogen). By soaking the tip in water, the dip would come off easily. Then a NC lacquer /BP dip applied will light more quickly.

Although I’ve got a reasonable supply of Q2G2s for BP clustering, I’d have no concerns using dipped starters — with a solid 12V system.
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