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  #1  
Old 01-11-2007, 10:04 PM
rocket_james rocket_james is offline
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I've been thinking about just what our goals are as the SVDT. Outside of Carl's specific request regarding the motors, and the rocket designs that Craig is popping out like popcorn at a movie, I was thinking about how I might contribute. I need a goal or I get bored. So, hence this thread.

What should Semroc be? Obviously, they can't be all things to all people. The motor thing certainly seems like a good idea. It seems to me that Semroc became popular so fast because a niche was open, namely cloning Centuri rockets. There seemed to be a fair amount of resources available if you wanted to clone your favorite old Estes rocket, but before Semroc, finding the resources to clone your favorite Centuri rocket was difficult if not impossible. The same kind of niche is available for low-power and contest motors. So, filling the motor void should work well. What next, then?

Mid-power rockets? Not just any mid-power rockets, but cool mid-power rockets that remind us of our roots. Why not upscale the classics. This already seems to be a proven concept with the SLS Laser-X, etc. Then, you provide the motors that go with them. High-power is having difficulties with the BATFE issues. I assume the hobby will find a way to get around the issues and make its way back, but HP flying in our area isn't what it used to be. So, mid-power should be ripe for a major resurgence right now.

I love the Classics page. Getting those filled out seems to make sense. I love the idea of picking parts off the page to build my classic kit. Too cool! So, with all that going on, does making additional sport rocket designs really start to stretch Semroc resources? Is there really a big market for that? It seems to me that there are three markets: the fly one rocket crowd ("forc"), the "new" rocketeers, and "old" rocketeers. Since Semroc is putting rockets out on the shelf now, he should be able to reach the forcs. With the classics, he is reaching the old rocketeers. Seems to me, the new rocketeers are a group that can be accessed. If those are anything like my grandson, Blake, they're going to move towards the SLS side of Semroc.

That covers rockets. Then, there's parts. I like the interchangeable motor mounts that Carl is putting out, ala SLS Laser-X. I don't like black Lexan centering rings!! So, I hope those die out. Certainly, there's some room to expand in this area with some creativity. Remember the Sport Rocketry article with the guys that were building the rockets that could be totally disassembled. That sounded like a really good concept to move forward with. Blake thought that was just awesome. With the variety of parts that Carl has now, "builders" should have plenty of tubes and cones. Maybe some specialty cones and cockpit templates would be a good thing to offer?

Just some food for thought that might get us focused in areas that make sense for Semroc.

Thoughts, Carl? Others?
James
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2007, 10:50 PM
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Carl@Semroc Carl@Semroc is offline
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That is a lot of INPUT! I love it. I feel that we have been in a sort of vacuum over the past 5 years.
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2007, 10:54 PM
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What black lexan centering rings???
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  #4  
Old 01-11-2007, 11:05 PM
rocket_james rocket_james is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl@Semroc
That is a lot of INPUT! I love it. I feel that we have been in a sort of vacuum over the past 5 years.

Thanks, Carl! Hey, you've been sort of busy lately! All that y'all have accomplished over the past few years is nothing short of awesome.

Maybe someone in here can design a 3" x 3" ad for you that I could drop into the DARS newsletter. I'm amazed at the caliber of talent you have in this group. Unfortunately, that is not my forte, or I'd already have sent one to you.
James
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Old 01-11-2007, 11:20 PM
rocket_james rocket_james is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
What black lexan centering rings???

Several vendors started providing these in lieu of the flat paper rings like Estes' CR-2060. The material they're made out of leaves a black residue on anything they touch. I think even Semroc was using them for a period of time, although the last order I got were different, and very nice. The last order I got from BMS about a year ago included those. They don't specifically state that's what they're made of, so you don't know it until you get them. I got one of the Saturn 1-B rockets from Zooch Rockets and those were loose in the box with the wraps and tubes. The stuff was all over the place. The instructions even mentioned to clean off any residue that might have gotten on the wraps. I ask now to be sure that's not what I'm getting. I won't scan one for you, for obvious reasons.
James
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  #6  
Old 01-11-2007, 11:34 PM
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I think it is just black mat board. It was one of the first things we tried, other than balsa, on our laser cutter. The black hides the soot from the burn, but it is still there and gets on everything. We tried many different brands of mat board before we settled on the white one we use. It still has a soot residue, but it was the least of all the ones we tried.

Even with the soot problem, the laser cut fiber does a much more accurate job than die cut fiber. We never had much luck with die cut cardboard unless it was index (.010") thickness.

We have three thicknesses of fiber now. Only the 4-ply (.050") has gotten much use so far. We have 2-ply (.025") which is closer to Estes and Quest, but is too thin for our tastes at least with 18mm engines. We have used 6-ply (.070") in testing and it does well. We will probably add a new line of centering rings using it when lite ply is overkill and 4-ply is not quite thick enough. Ideas?
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2007, 11:49 PM
rocket_james rocket_james is offline
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I liked the Estes CR-2060 rings. The paper held up nicely. I haven't yet tried the last ones I ordered from you. They look great! The residue from the laser cutting isn't bad at all. Actually, I was wondering how they might react with a rocket motor that has a high initial thrust. Could they crack? I'm not an engineer, but t seems to me that the paper centering rings would tend to have more flex, thereby absorbing the energy better than something more stiff. I am out of my league here, though.
James
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  #8  
Old 01-12-2007, 12:40 AM
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Tau Zero Tau Zero is offline
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Thumbs up Carl suggests, Jay responds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl@Semroc
Only the 4-ply (.050") has gotten much use so far. [SNIP]
We have used 6-ply (.070") in testing and it does well. We will probably add a new line of centering rings using it when lite ply is overkill and 4-ply is not quite thick enough. Ideas?
(glassy-eyed hypnotized look) I could use some 4-ply CR-10250's for my Mu-Tater design... (...and I'll be using both AR- and RA-2050's for my "close but no cigar" SAROS).


Quote:
We have 2-ply (.025") which is closer to Estes and Quest, but is too thin for our tastes at least with 18mm engines.
(hacking, coughing, and spewing sound effects)

--I'm *nothing* if not melodramatic.

Actually, I end up gluing the 2-ply rings to 1/16" balsa, just to beef them up. (Which *shouldn't* even be necessary, if the centering rings were "beefy" enough in the first place. )


Cheers,
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"Centuri Guy"/"Tau Zero"
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"Your lightyears may vary."


“Centuri fret buzz in an updated form.”
Bill “Wallyum” Eichelberger re: Estes Flutter-By
03 Sept 2014
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  #9  
Old 01-12-2007, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket_james
Several vendors started providing these in lieu of the flat paper rings like Estes' CR-2060. The material they're made out of leaves a black residue on anything they touch. I think even Semroc was using them for a period of time, although the last order I got were different, and very nice. The last order I got from BMS about a year ago included those. They don't specifically state that's what they're made of, so you don't know it until you get them. I got one of the Saturn 1-B rockets from Zooch Rockets and those were loose in the box with the wraps and tubes. The stuff was all over the place. The instructions even mentioned to clean off any residue that might have gotten on the wraps. I ask now to be sure that's not what I'm getting. I won't scan one for you, for obvious reasons.
James



Ok, "lexan" is a trade name for a hard plastic (used for windows, model car bodies, etc.), which is why I was confused. I know of the paper you're talking about, and yes, it's residue can be annoying.
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  #10  
Old 01-12-2007, 03:35 AM
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The Estes cardboard has always usually been sufficient. The Quest cardboard was just pathetic, cheap stuff for awhile. Supposedly they've corrected that, but I'll believe it when I see it.

The stuff you use is great.
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