Yes, "pass out the axe handles" and settle it like men . . . LOL !

If the NAR has the same reciprocity for motor certification with South Africa's hobbyist rocketry organization that it does with the CAR (Canadian Association of Rocketry), we could have RNX motors in the U.S. now, as *this* http://www.nakka-rocketry.net/rnx_int.html page mentions (at the bottom, where it says: "As a testament to the feasibility of this propellant, an indiginous [indigenous] version of RNX propellant has been commercially produced in South Africa for the hobby rocket market, for a number of years now, and has proven to be very successful in popularizing high power rocketry in that country.")

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NAR #54895 SR

I had forgotten about the South African program . . .

As for the NAR accepting the RNX propellant, I suspect that approaching TRIPOLI, first, might be the better avenue, initially, since they already allow " EX / Research " motors and NAR does not.

Dave F.

I agree. While I'm not into High Power Rocketry (for cost and [lack of!] rocket storage space reasons, plus never having had a large enough flying field within convenient range; I've never been against HPR, or even experimental rocketry), the Tripoli Rocketry Association (TRA) is definitely the SpaceX to the NAR's (*current-day*--not the more daring, 1950s/1960s-era) NASA, which now fidgets nervously over even calculated risks whose risks are quite low, and:

That is sad. Even in France, where governing rules for non-professional rocketry are generated at high government levels (and there is more regulation), model rocketry, HPR, and even experimental rocketry enjoy government support--and even sponsoring funding, in youth organizations, through CNES (the French national space agency, see: https://www.planete-sciences.org/es...ntation?lang=fr ). They see these forms of non-professional rocketry as being important for creating new generations of "home-grown" astronautical engineers, electrical engineers, software engineers, chemical engineers, and scientists and other specialists of all kinds--yet purely "for fun" (and competition) hobbyist rocketry also thrives in France.

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NAR #54895 SR

The next logical step, after getting Tripoli on board, would, most likely, be for CAR & TRA to reach an agreement. With two organizations involved, that would provide the "leverage" needed, in approaching the NAR.

Dave F.

Yes--I like the way you're thinking there... :-) While I definitely think it's best to "deal with first things first," and "one at a time" (getting motors using the RNX propellant certified first), there is another scale realism desire of mine--which I'm sure other space modelers share--that such gentle tactics could, in the future, also bring to fruition:

For scale models of solid propellant vehicles that--in their full-size scale prototypes--used double-base propellants (which produced that distinctive, transparent to dark reddish-brown, nearly-transparent exhaust plume, which [in air] ignited and "after-burned" well behind the motors' nozzles), it would be wonderful if double-base propellant model and High Power Rocket motors were available. (Even in non-scale rockets, such motors could fill performance gaps between black powder and composite propellant motors.) Also:

There once was, in fact, a small British company that produced double-base propellant model rocket motors, so such motors are definitely practical. (If memory serves, the owner didn't "dot all the i's and cross all the t's" of the rather Byzantine UK regulations for hobbyist rocket motor manufacturers [the infamous 1875 Explosives Act is still in force; today's regulations offer a bypass or exemption, provided that certain conditions are met], and it was more prudent for him to cease and desist than to "lawyer-up" and fight it, since the UK government could easily have bankrupted him, making any legal victory a Pyrrhic one at best.) In addition:

One such propellant formula--whose ingredients (the fuel/binder, in particular) are quite cheap--is actually a *composite* propellant (with all that that implies for relative ease and safety of manufacture), but it produces a double-base propellant-type transparent reddish, "after-burning" exhaust plume, as can be seen *here*: http://wickmanspacecraft.com/psan-i/ . (That Wallops Island-launched rocket--a "12 series" 'special projects' test vehicle [in NASA's alpha-numeric sounding rockets type code system; see page 85 of ^this^ https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4401.pdf NASA book]--was a Wickman Aerospace PSAN propellant motor test vehicle.) Now:

It soon went unstable due to its high fineness ratio coupled with its spin rate (as did the first one or two Bristol Aerospace Black Brant III sounding rockets, and UP Aerospace's first SpaceLoft vehicle, for the same reasons; both were fixed by changing the spin rate [aided by adding a fourth fin on the SpaceLoft sounding rocket]), but the Wickman Aerospace test vehicle's PSAN motor worked as expected. Its propellant's main ingredient was ammonium nitrate (AN)--specifically, Phase-Stabilized Ammonium Nitrate (PSAN)--which causes the propellant to *NOT* expand when temperature-cycled (a perennial problem with ammonium nitrate-based solid propellants), and:

This ^mechanically^ self-destructive (rocket motor case-rupturing) AN-based propellant grain expansion characteristic--along with its low specific impulse, great difficulty in being ignited, and very low burning rate--were *all* remedied by the PSAN (and other) AN propellant formula improvements. They were pioneered by Dr. Adolf Oberth, son of Hermann Oberth, the famous Austro-Hungarian-born German physicist who--along with France's Robert Esnault-Pelterie, Russia's Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, and our Robert Goddard--were the founding fathers of modern rocketry and astronautics. As well:

PSAN propellant model rocket (and HPR) motors--due to the ready, bulk availability and low costs of their propellant ingredients, would be quite inexpensive (and safer, because the propellant is a composite one)--to manufacture and load into the motor cases than black powder or double-base propellant motors (especially in rolled paper with clay nozzle single-use motor cases), although the PSAN propellant also lends itself to use in re-loadable rocket motors.

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NAR #54895 SR

I think that my approach has the greatest potential to succeed. This is a game of "Chess" and every move must be planned, in advance.

Double-Base . . . Tripoli explicitly forbids Double-Base propellants in their Experimental / Research motor program. This will, most likely, be an insurmountable problem, at least for the foreseeable future.

That's not a problem, since the PSAN propellant--while its exhaust plume *looks* like that of a double-base propellant--is actually a composite propellant, BUT:

As I wrote above, "first things first"--getting the RNX propellant motors NAR certified (with the help of the TRA and, later, also the CAR, as you've suggested) shouldn't be mixed/diluted/confused with (or by) other efforts. Once the RNX motors are in hand (and have been for a while), *then* pursuing additional goals, such as the double-base-like PSAN composite propellant motors, might be considered. As Jonathan Livingston Seagull said, "Let's start with straight and level flight" (before even considering fancier maneuvers).

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NAR #54895 SR

I remember reading that book in school, when I was about 12 years old ( 1973 ) . . .

I just read it a couple of months ago; I'd seen it (and a lot of "Jonathan merchandise" such as handbags, caps, T-shirts, etc.) in stores everywhere back then, but whenever anything is over-hyped, it has the opposite effect on me from what the "hype-ers" intend.

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NAR #54895 SR