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  #21  
Old 06-05-2012, 12:29 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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The old 18mm Cox D8-3 "baby D" has been out of production for FAR too long and actually fills a needed niche that no other motor currently fills. It was GREAT in the Mars Lander, Estes 1284 Space Shuttle, and other large/heavy 18mm rockets. It was only like 13n-sec, but that's quite a bit over a 9n-sec C motor and often made the difference between a good flight and barely flying. I do not know if that motor is possible nowadays in a standard 18mm length casing as apparently BP has gotten weaker over the years. Why BP is weaker has not been satisfactorily ever explained to me. KNO3 and Sulfur should not change as long as same grade is always used. Possibly it has something to do with charcoal quality.

The Aerotech composite SU 18mm D10 is close but is a whole lot more impulse than what may be wanted or needed.
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  #22  
Old 06-05-2012, 12:45 PM
carbons4 carbons4 is offline
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Charcoal and/or binder. I would think if you could make it once, you could make it again. I would guess it's more of the "no one wants to mess with a D motor that is just a tad over a full C. I would like to try out some of the reloadable 18mm composite motors.
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  #23  
Old 06-05-2012, 02:23 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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It was more like a full C plus a full B motor. Quite a bit more than a C.
I actually used to like to fly them in my Citation Patriot too....delay was short, but flight better than a C6-5.

The booster D8-0 was great for sending an Astron Farside into ORBIT.
D8-0 to D8-0 to C6-7 with a LOOOOOOOOONG streamer for recovery.
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  #24  
Old 06-05-2012, 03:08 PM
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Round 2 - MPC has told me that they have yet to test the tooling on these two kits, but they are planning to do so. Also, if they do decide to release them it will not be until at least sometime in 2013 (2012 is not a possibility). Until they test the tooling , there would be no definitive info on release date or what will be included in the kits.
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  #25  
Old 06-05-2012, 04:06 PM
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Thanks for the information about the kit status turbofireball. I have both the Vostok and the Titan III kits. I removed the T20 tubes from both decades ago to make payload altitude models when the NAR standard payload was a one ounce lead weight. The tubes were not readily available at the time.
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  #26  
Old 06-05-2012, 05:22 PM
Rocketcrab Rocketcrab is offline
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Originally Posted by Earl
Did not Quest obtain most of the 'bones' of the old MPC rocketry assets? I guess those molds must not have been part of the deal.



Now that I think on it some more, I thought I'd read years ago that AVI wound up with the molds after MPC got out of the model rocketry biz in the early 70's. Anyone?
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  #27  
Old 06-05-2012, 07:40 PM
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The C5 was the D8 replacement. Uberfill motor. If Estes were to make a 3.75" 18mm casing they could do a C14 and totally piss off GH, as well as a full C7 or 8, and a D4 cheater motor.

I suspect this is not on the immediate horizon because Estes adds motors slowly and carefully. They just (in relative terms) added the C11 and E9 and E12. That was a big deal for them. The next likely motor is a high thrust D, like a D30 or some such (which is a B14 surrogate!!).

BP is not dead. APCP as made now is overpriced and is niche.

I would love to see a KP enhanced (5-8%) BP motor from Estes in the 24mm form factor. It is a drop in technology.

I have a turn-key motor/propellant which is drop in to the Hobbico business model. I suppose I could deploy it myself on a smaller scale. Fine.

Model rocketry is a tiny market as compared to 3-4 McDonald's local locations. So don't expect miracles. I suggest everyone reading this get a local city after school program to adopt model rocketry, you know, like the 70's.

Jerry

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  #28  
Old 06-05-2012, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketcrab
Originally Posted by Earl
Did not Quest obtain most of the 'bones' of the old MPC rocketry assets? I guess those molds must not have been part of the deal.



Now that I think on it some more, I thought I'd read years ago that AVI wound up with the molds after MPC got out of the model rocketry biz in the early 70's. Anyone?


Yes, AVI did obtain the MPC 'stuff' first after MPC got out of the business, but when Quest started up they somehow got what was left at that point (Quest founder Bill Stine's father G. Harry had ties to MPC and possibly had 'in roads' into helping Quest pick up what was left of MPC/AVI when Quest was founded).

I'm just assuming on most of this though.....anyone have the straight scoop?


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  #29  
Old 06-05-2012, 08:43 PM
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Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketcrab
Originally Posted by Earl
Did not Quest obtain most of the 'bones' of the old MPC rocketry assets? I guess those molds must not have been part of the deal. Now that I think on it some more, I thought I'd read years ago that AVI wound up with the molds after MPC got out of the model rocketry biz in the early 70's. Anyone?
My understanding is that after the General Mills/MPC explosion in Corona, CA they sold the motors (WI) and motor assets to AVI who stored the motors resulting in them being temperature cycled and decertified.

AVI made more varieties of BP motors than all other vendors combined. I suspect the volumes were quite insufficient, but our club, Claremont Rocket Society ordered as many of each size as budget would allow. We may have been their biggest dealer.

They were pretty reliable too. The usual BP motor problems of course and a few added because of the drop-in delay tech they used.

Stine was instrumental in the GM/MPC deal. Had there not been accidental deaths at MPC Corona or Quest Yuma, the whole world would be different (ly).

I believe Stine Jr being a rocket zealot has tried to acquire all AVI and FSI motor assets and as many mold assets as are findable and payable. Bill is a "true believer".

Earth (Jerry) to Bill. Engineering and standards have improved. The old molds are less useful than you think. Doubt me? MOON GO!!

Jerry
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Exemptions not regulations ACHIEVED. U.S. Rockets instaship. http://bit.ly/1aca7mA Model rocketry is as safe as safe can be defined in human existence. Bow and pray: GH Stine, Orville, Vern, Lee, Lonnie, Carl, etc. No, really. U.S. Rockets released first moonburner Toy Rockets G30, TRA first certified motor: H, invented LMR, HPR, Firestarter, reloadables 1-90, and now . . . ACHIEVED. LDRS-1 I200!!
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  #30  
Old 06-05-2012, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine
My understanding is that after the General Mills/MPC explosion in Corona, CA they sold the motors (WI) and motor assets to AVI who stored the motors resulting in them being temperature cycled and decertified.

AVI made more varieties of BP motors than all other vendors combined. I suspect the volumes were quite insufficient, but our club, Claremont Rocket Society ordered as many of each size as budget would allow. We may have been their biggest dealer.

They were pretty reliable too. The usual BP motor problems of course and a few added because of the drop-in delay tech they used.

Stine was instrumental in the GM/MPC deal. Had there not been accidental deaths at MPC Corona or Quest Yuma, the whole world would be different (ly).

I believe Stine Jr being a rocket zealot has tried to acquire all AVI and FSI motor assets and as many mold assets as are findable and payable. Bill is a "true believer".

Earth (Jerry) to Bill. Engineering and standards have improved. The old molds are less useful than you think. Doubt me? MOON GO!!

Jerry



Jerry-

What was the Corona explosion? Not familiar with that event in MPC history.


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