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  #91  
Old 04-29-2021, 03:53 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ez2cDave
The motor for the "Land Rocket" cars was ALL aluminum, including the Nozzle. It also looks to be 3/4" +/- in diameter.

Dave F.
I remember it--and my also long-gone Estes Screamin' Eagle Land Rocket (car)--well. That XR 100 motor had a tiny hole in its forward closure, which spurted liquid RP-100 when the motor was full, preventing the motor from bursting. It also powered the Vashon/Estes Shrike and XS-1 Space Shuttle foam rocket planes (and it would also make a good "drop-in" replacement for the Jetex/Jet-X and Rapier motors, in jet plane, car, and boat models, including the new-production classic and new Jetex kits (see: https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com...red-models.html and https://jetex.org/ ).
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  #92  
Old 04-29-2021, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I see these "pressure motors" as being very passe' and a poor substitute for real rocket power that BURNS fuel.
They were obsolete when first introduced.


Really . . .

Imagine what "pressure motor" could be created using THIS ( with the proper nozzle design ) .

https://www.nuvair.com/nuvt-asme.html

That is 7000 PSI !

This one weighs less ( 6000 psi tank )

https://www.nuvair.com/nuvt-6000.html

Dave F.
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  #93  
Old 04-29-2021, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
That XR 100 motor had a tiny hole in its forward closure, which spurted liquid RP-100 when the motor was full, preventing the motor from bursting.


A couple more XR 100 pics.

Dave F.
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  #94  
Old 04-29-2021, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ez2cDave
A couple more XR 100 pics.

Dave F.
Thank you--looking at those, and remembering mine, I can't help thinking that the XR 100 would be the easiest of the Cold Propellant motors for a machine shop, and/or perhaps Shapeways (with their metal 3D printers) to duplicate, if Estes (hint, hint, any lurkers from Penrose, CO!) didn't make them. Also:

The XR 100 would also find a market among Jetex/Jet-X/Rapier jet model enthusiasts (of which there are surprisingly many: https://jetex.org/ ), as the XR 100 powered the Jetex-like Vashon/Estes Shrike and XS-1 Space Shuttle hand-launched rocket planes (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...73/73est44.html ), as well as the Estes Land Rockets (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...75/75est42.html [there were/are also Jetex car and boat models]).
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  #95  
Old 04-29-2021, 06:49 PM
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Manuvering THRUSTORS, Yes.
Actual main rocket propulsion source ??
That's a BIG KING SIZED CAN of HFN ( Hell-Frakkin'-NO). to THAT.

I stand by my original statement.
OBSOLETE even before Vashon brought them to market.
No FIRE=NO ROCKET.
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  #96  
Old 04-29-2021, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Manuvering THRUSTORS, Yes.
Actual main rocket propulsion source ??
That's a BIG KING SIZED CAN of HFN ( Hell-Frakkin'-NO). to THAT.

I stand by my original statement.
OBSOLETE even before Vashon brought them to market.
No FIRE=NO ROCKET.


So, Ion propulsion is "not a rocket" ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster

Dave F.
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  #97  
Old 04-29-2021, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Manuvering THRUSTORS, Yes.
Actual main rocket propulsion source ??
That's a BIG KING SIZED CAN of HFN ( Hell-Frakkin'-NO). to THAT.

I stand by my original statement.
OBSOLETE even before Vashon brought them to market.
No FIRE=NO ROCKET.
Cold-gas thrusters (nitrogen, xenon, helium, etc.) work great in a vacuum, and even--for lightweight re-entry vehicles--in the atmosphere, until the aero-surfaces (if any) take hold. The Mercury capsules used hydrogen peroxide monopropellant thrusters, but most of them were low-thrust [1 pound] units, yet they worked effectively even after re-entry, and:

Rear Admiral Robert C. Truax made steam rockets (and not just for Evel Knievel) that worked on the same pressurized propellant pressure drop/phase change principle as the Vashon motors; only the propellant formulae (and motor sizes) were different. He developed an educational steam rocket (with a water heater/launcher base; a low-melting point alloy nozzle plug blew out at launch) that was about three feet long. (In Mexico, steam rocket car races are popular, with both local and foreign drivers and car crews taking part.) Any self-contained propulsion system that hurls matter--regardless of whether or not it's burning, or even hot--in one direction, to produce motion in the opposite direction (which enables it to produce motion in a vacuum), is a rocket. (Likewise, even an electric ducted fan [EDF] is a jet--a pressure jet, whose exhaust isn't heated by burning a fuel with the air [or heated by a nuclear reactor, or by hot filaments]--because a jet engine is any air-breathing propulsion system that produces thrust by accelerating and directing its exhaust out of a nozzle.)
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http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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  #98  
Old 04-29-2021, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ez2cDave
So, Ion propulsion is "not a rocket" ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster

Dave F.
Arthur C. Clarke expressed it well in two brief paragraphs in his non-fiction 1968 book "The Promise of Space" (on the last page of Chapter 3, 'Nothing to Push Against'):

"Almost all rockets that have been built so far have obtained their thrust from chemical reactions: burning substances have generated hot gases that escape from a nozzle. However, there are endless ways of producing the same effect: any power source may be used, from a nuclear reactor to an electric battery. And any material may be used to provide the jet: solids, liquids, gases, electrons, ions, subatomic particles. As long as they have mass and can be aimed in a definite direction, they will give thrust.

"Perhaps in the far future there may be spacecraft propelled by the swiftest 'jet' than can exist--beams of pure light of unimaginable intensity, created by generators brighter than a billion suns. But they will still be rockets, in the direct line of descent from the crude vehicles which, in our time, first broke through the barrier of the atmosphere." ALSO:

Space sails (solar sails https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail , laser-pushed lightsails https://www.space.com/laser-sail-ce...h-starshot.html , electric sails [E-sails: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_sail ], and magnetic sails [magsails: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_sail ]) also operate, as rockets do, according to Isaac Newton's Third Law of Motion ("For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"), but they are not rockets because a rocket, by definition, is a completely self-contained propulsion system. The various types of space sails also operate by the action-reaction principle, but their "propellant" (solar [or one day, stellar] photons, photons from lasers, charged particle beams, charged solar wind [or one day, stellar wind] particles, and planetary, solar, and/or stellar magnetic fields) isn't contained within the sails, but comes from outside them.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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  #99  
Old 04-30-2021, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
--cold-gas thrusters work just fine, especially in a vacuum.

Yes, but only in an upright. Flights are too short in a canister. They get really dusty in there unless you put a new bag on first.
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  #100  
Old 04-30-2021, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
Yes, but only in an upright. Flights are too short in a canister. They get really dusty in there unless you put a new bag on first.


I found some highly-classified images of the propulsion unit for the U.S.S. ELECTROLUX . . .

Dave F.
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