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Old 03-30-2020, 12:44 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Default Centuri Argus (tube lengths?)

Hello All,

The Centuri Argus kit, which was patterned after the Lockheed X-17 re-entry research missile (and may have been named for "Project [or Operation] Argus," in which the U.S. Navy launched three X-17 vehicles--each carrying a small atomic bomb--from the U.S.S. Norton Sound, to create artificial radiation belts), used three different tubing sizes. I *think* I've successfully figured out (with the help of the Ninfinger Productions chart, see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/bo...es.html#centuri ), and measurements of the three tubes in a little-foreshortened Argus catalog photograph (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...81/81cen10.html ), which Centuri tubes the kit used, and I was wondering if anyone here could confirm--or correct--my conclusions. Now:

If I'm correct, the bottom, widest section was ST-1313 (13.5” long [Estes labels this 1.34" O.D. tubing BT-56]), the middle tube was ST-88 (8” long), and the top tube was ST-79 (9” long). Are these the correct lengths? Also (for anyone else who would like to clone the Centuri Argus [scans of its kit instructions--with decal scans--are here: http://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/cen5309.htm ]):

Its PNC-70 and PNC-71 nose cones (the Argus kit came with both; the conical PNC-71 was also used in the X-24 Bug boost-glider kit [the Estes Yankee--and assorted RTF rockets of theirs--use a virtually identical one for BT-20 tubing; here's a picture of an Argus with a PNC-71: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/73cen70g.html ], and its PSR-813 and PSR-78 plastic transitions, are available--in cast resin duplicates--from Sirius Rocketry, in their "Moldin' Oldies" line [see: https://www.siriusrocketry.biz/isho...ype-c-parts-35/ ]). Also, a YORF member--I won't identify him here, not having obtained his permission to do so in this context--has made me beautiful 3D printed PNC-70 duplicate nose cones (this nose cone, used in the Centuri Lil' Herc, Moonraker, and Hummingbird kits, was also included in their Argus kit (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...77/77cat20.html ), and:

The Argus' X-17-like plastic fin unit is (and/or was) used in various Estes kits that are--or fairly recently were--in production (their Eliminator kit is one), so obtaining this plastic fin unit (and the ST-13/BT-56 motor mount parts) wouldn't be difficult.

I hope this information will be helpful, and many thanks in advance to anyone who can help!
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Last edited by blackshire : 03-30-2020 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 03-30-2020, 01:41 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is online now
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The Argus fin unit was the original Enerjet fin-can.
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Old 03-30-2020, 02:09 PM
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Ok, here are tube lengths from an open Centuri Argus kit:

Bottom tube: ST13 12"

Middle tube: ST8 5.5"

Top tube: ST7 7"


All your other callouts I think are correct. The Estes Yankee kit used a very similar 'looking' cone to the Centuri PNC-71 cone (used in this kit and, as you pointed out, the X-24 Bug kit and for the plastic pod cones on the Orion kit...and a few other kits), but it is not quite the same. I got some of the Estes cones about 10 years ago thinking I could use them for an Orion clone, but they just did not quite do it for me.

And as GH pointed out, the fin can is the original one developed for the Enerjet 1340 sounding rocket and used in quite a number of kits over the years. Wow, that fin can is approaching 50 years old.


Earl
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:17 PM
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teflonrocketry1 teflonrocketry1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
:

Also, a YORF member--I won't identify him here, not having obtained his permission to do so in this context--has made me beautiful 3D printed PNC-70 duplicate nose cones (this nose cone, used in the Centuri Lil' Herc, Moonraker, and Hummingbird kits, was also included in their Argus kit (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...77/77cat20.html ), and:



Thanks Blackshire! That YORF member would be me. I have 3D printer files for the PNC-70 that very closely match the shape of the one from Moldin' Oldies. I also have a 3D printed the PNC -71 nose cone and the Enerjet 1340/20 fin cans. The problem is that I am currently having some serious health issues and have not been able to make it downstairs into my workshop where my 3D printers reside. I am taking so much pain medicine that they won't let me drive or trust me to do the finances, so even if I could 3D print something, I wouldn't be able to drive them to the post office to mail them out, or get paid for them. I also have many rocket kits ready for paint and since I have respiratory issues (NOT Covid -19) I can't even fathom picking up a can of spray paint and using it now. I have good days and bad days; I am hopefull I will recover from this illness to the point were I might be able to produce some 3D prints again in the near future. For now enjoy an occasional RockSim file that I post, which is basically all that I can do for the hobby in this condition.
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:21 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is online now
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I hope you feel better, Bruce.
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:24 PM
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Yeah, +1 to that. Hang in there and we all hope you get better super, super fast!

Earl
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I hope you feel better, Bruce.

GH ,

Thanks for your well wishes.
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Old 04-05-2020, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
The Argus fin unit was the original Enerjet fin-can.
First, I want to apologize for my delayed reply here. I knew that about the Centuri Argus & Phoenix Bird kits’ (and several Estes kits’) Enerjet-origin plastic fin unit (and so did Roy Houchin, for whom I'd also posted the Argus query), but I'm glad that you mentioned that fact nonetheless. We graybeard (and gray forelock, mane, and tail) space modelers know these things, but many younger ones do not, and mentioning such things helps to fill in their model rocketry historical knowledge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Ok, here are tube lengths from an open Centuri Argus kit:

Bottom tube: ST13 12"

Middle tube: ST8 5.5"

Top tube: ST7 7"


All your other callouts I think are correct. The Estes Yankee kit used a very similar 'looking' cone to the Centuri PNC-71 cone (used in this kit and, as you pointed out, the X-24 Bug kit and for the plastic pod cones on the Orion kit...and a few other kits), but it is not quite the same. I got some of the Estes cones about 10 years ago thinking I could use them for an Orion clone, but they just did not quite do it for me.

And as GH pointed out, the fin can is the original one developed for the Enerjet 1340 sounding rocket and used in quite a number of kits over the years. Wow, that fin can is approaching 50 years old.


Earl
Thank you! I just sent a link to Roy as well. Indeed—the conical Centuri PNC-71, and the Estes PNC-20[?] (in their Yankee kit, and also in a few Estes RTF rockets) are very similar nose cones. (Their included angles—and their rounded nose tip radii—may even be identical, or very nearly so.) The only significant difference between them, of course, is their “outer edges’ diameters” (0.759” for the Centuri PNC-71, versus 0.736” for the Estes PNC-20[?]). (If one made a duplicate Estes one, with its length extended slightly so that its base’s outer diameter [*not* the tenon’s <shoulder’s> diameter] matched the 0.759” outer diameter of the Centuri/Semroc #7 / ST-7 tubing, its shape might be identical to that of the PNC-71, or so close that it wouldn’t matter [like the virtually-identical Centuri PNC-54 and the Estes Gnome kit’s nose cone; both are 4:1 tangent ogive nose cones for #5 / BT-5 tubing].)
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http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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Old 04-05-2020, 08:40 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teflonrocketry1
Thanks Blackshire! That YORF member would be me. I have 3D printer files for the PNC-70 that very closely match the shape of the one from Moldin' Oldies. I also have a 3D printed the PNC -71 nose cone and the Enerjet 1340/20 fin cans. The problem is that I am currently having some serious health issues and have not been able to make it downstairs into my workshop where my 3D printers reside. I am taking so much pain medicine that they won't let me drive or trust me to do the finances, so even if I could 3D print something, I wouldn't be able to drive them to the post office to mail them out, or get paid for them. I also have many rocket kits ready for paint and since I have respiratory issues (NOT Covid -19) I can't even fathom picking up a can of spray paint and using it now. I have good days and bad days; I am hopefull I will recover from this illness to the point were I might be able to produce some 3D prints again in the near future. For now enjoy an occasional RockSim file that I post, which is basically all that I can do for the hobby in this condition.
You’re most welcome, Bruce. I have an idea that could be a “Win, Win” situation, both for you (I’m sure that we could all use some extra income [even if for a possible upcoming “rainier day”], a second stream of money, especially during this epoch) and also for us; here it is:

I fully understand your pain situation (having experienced it in 2014, 2016 – 2017, and—again—during the last few months). During all three periods, I would not have tried to evade or flee “the grim reaper” (or in my case, an anything-but-grim, four-hooved lady of my acquaintance, had she come for me [she *was* waiting for me, before and during my 2014 gallbladder removal surgery]), because the pain was unbearable, and I just wanted the pain to stop! Also:

When I’ve had to do things that require some length of time, I’ve arranged things so that I can make myself as comfortable as possible (and, importantly, *not* have to move, and/or get up and move, until I’m done with the chore or activity). In your case, you could go downstairs once (once a day, or even just once a week) and 3D print nose cones, transitions, and fin units in batches downstairs (to fill multiple orders from customers, and to build up a reasonable [but not huge] inventory), so that you could just do it at spread-out intervals. Now, regarding shipping the 3D printed parts, I have good news (which my late friend Gary Moore, founder and owner of Commercial Video Company in South Miami, Florida, taught me):

There is no need to go to a Post Office to mail your 3D printed parts. If you call the Toll-Free telephone number printed on the Priority Mail boxes, large envelopes, and sleeves (the U.S. Postal Service website https://www.usps.com/ should also contain the information), they will deliver the packaging materials to your home, and they will come and pick up the packed boxes, envelopes, and sleeves at your home, making it unnecessary to leave home to send the parcels. It appears to be—for whatever reason—a “well-kept secret.” When I ordered parts, such as bulk quantities of screw eyes, Avery self-adhesive vinyl rings (for reinforcing the holes punched in my ASP scale kits’ streamers, etc. [see: https://www.rocketreviews.com/nova-...-mike-goss.html ]), the representative at my screw eyes vendor—I forget their name—said (after I’d asked him if they would ship them to me via Priority Mail, because his quoted UPS [or FedEx] shipping rate was considerably higher):

“We’ll only ship them via UPS [or FedEx], because it isn’t worth our time and money for an employee to wait in line at the Post Office.” When I mentioned the U.S. Postal Service’s free packaging materials delivery—and their pickup of the packed parcels at homes and businesses, by calling the Toll-Free telephone number, he expressed great surprise, having never heard of these services. He called the number (it's 1-800-222-1811), and sure enough, they delivered the Priority Mail boxes he needed, and the next day they picked up the sealed parcels and delivered them to me. I called him back after the boxes of screw eyes arrived a few days later (they could/can also be tracked—online and via telephone—for a dollar or less), and he thanked me for informing him about these USPS services, which Gary utilized for many years; he ran Commercial Video Company out of his house, and the USPS regularly sent him the packaging materials and picked up his parcels for delivery to his customers.

I hope this information will be helpful.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

Last edited by blackshire : 04-08-2020 at 04:42 PM.
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