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  #21  
Old 09-08-2021, 06:12 AM
frognbuff frognbuff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus
The Alpha flight was delayed maybe 6 months or so awaiting the Air Force to accept the flight termination system. Firefly purchased an "off the shelf" termination system which, through no fault of their own, was held up awaiting certification. Cost them a huge amount of time and money.

One of the 5 Reaver engines quit about 15 seconds into the flight causing the underpower. Remaining 4 engines did a good job of orienting the vehicle but were not enough power.


5 engines is Astra. Firefly has four engines, one of which shut off 15 seconds in flight. So they avoided the lift-off drama that Astra experienced, but the same underperforming effect in the end. I'm guessing they will bounce back quickly!
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  #22  
Old 09-08-2021, 11:47 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frognbuff
It's called an Automated Flight Safety System (AFSS) and it's a requirement on US EELV-class vehicles too. Must be in service by 2025 or so. SpaceX uses one now. No need to look to Japan.
JAXA's was the first one to be publicly described, before their Epsilon launch vehicle first flew several years ago. It was designed as a cheaper but improved replacement for the M-V (also called Mu-5; the Epsilon uses an H-IIA booster solid motor, topped by M-V upper stages), the largest of the solid propellant space launch vehicles developed by ISAS (the Institute of Space and Astronautical Science).

The Epsilon vehicle can be launched by a much smaller crew, which also saves money (Range Safety Officers, like EOD--Explosive Ordnance Disposal--crews, don't come cheap, either). The articles also mentioned that its autonomous flight termination system would not be used immediately, but would operate in "monitoring mode" on several flights (with a Range Safety Officer being in charge of flight termination, if necessary), before it would be used by itself in autonomous mode.
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Originally Posted by frognbuff
If Astra got away with having no destruct charges, it's because they flew from the bogus range at Kodiak. I say "bogus" because the user has to bring most if not all of their own Range equipment.
That is an interesting perspective, and it would even be correct, *IF* the launch pad Astra uses there was the ^only^ one, but that is not the case at all. (It would be like calling Cape Canaveral a bogus range because the U.S. Army set up their own mobile ground support vehicles to conduct practice launches of Pershing 1 missiles from Launch Complex 16 [an old Titan I & II ICBM complex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_...unch_Complex_16 ], wherever it was convenient on the open ground at LC16. Cape Canaveral also has other launch complexes with service towers and lifting cranes, as well as tracking & telemetry sites and vehicle & payload preparation facilities.) So does the Pacific Spaceport Complex - Alaska (PSCA: https://akaerospace.com/spaceports/ & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacif...E2%80%93_Alaska ), from which other satellites have been launched, aboard Athena I https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athena_I and Minotaur IV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minotaur_IV launch vehicles; I am amazed that you are unaware of the extent of the facilities at the PSCA, and:

Astra didn't "get away" with not using destruct charges; their Rocket "3.X" vehicles are simply not massive enough--with enough onboard RP-1 kerosene and LOX--to have to use explosive charges. The liquid propellant (with parallel-burning, solid propellant boosters) Aerobee sounding rockets, even the large (four-engine), 22" diameter Aerobee 350, didn't carry explosive charges. If they deviated too far from their planned powered ascent trajectories, their engines (or *the* engine, in the other [15" diameter] Aerobee variants) were simply cut off by radio command.

This (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgWHLu3mA44 ) video of the launch of Rocket 3.1 (on September 12, 2020: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockets_by_Astra )--whose five Delphin first stage engines were cut off soon after liftoff due to a guidance system anomaly--shows the almost fully-fueled vehicle falling back and impacting on PSCA range land (which had been cleared of people). The explosion was small and brief (as Scott Manley covered here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2izFjTEBKQ&t=3s ), and didn't pummel the video-takers with a particularly powerful shock wave (as happened after the Antares rocket fall-back and explosion at Wallops a few years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ0SgAU9LXI ).

The very basic launch pad that Astra uses there is one that was built for use by such new private launch providers, which often need little more than a concrete pad, electrical power, and perhaps high-pressure gas supplies and/or pad deluge system water for their small launch vehicles. The PSCA has a full complement of range equipment and services (see: https://www.faa.gov/space/spaceports_by_state/ ) and six launch pads; four for orbital rockets, and two for suborbital ones (sounding rockets, ABMs, ABM target vehicles, etc.). A wide range of launch azimuths (110° - 220°) and orbital inclinations (59° - 110°) is available from the PSCA, which can conduct launches year-round. (The Poker Flat Research Range https://www.pfrr.alaska.edu/content/welcome-poker-flat , our sounding rocket range [30 miles north of Fairbanks; I was the volunteer range historian years ago], also conducts launches--and payload recovery--year-round.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by frognbuff
Further, commanded engine shutdown IS a Flight Termination System. At the Cape or Vandenberg, an "ARM" command from the Range, despite its innocuous sounding name, shuts down all liquid-propellant engines and prevents all future staging events. The vehicle is then free to fall to the ocean (after all, the flight is TERMINATED). Or, they can also send the "DESTRUCT" command, and that one is self-explanatory.
This is not news to me; the two-act flight termination procedure has been in use for almost a lifetime now. (The ARM and DESTRUCT switches were/are activated at the same time to stop errant Polaris and Minuteman ballistic missiles--and other solid propellant vehicles--because clean thrust cut-off of burning solid motors, especially larger lower stage motors, didn't/doesn't always occur, unless charges powerful enough to fragment the motor cases are used.) What is newsworthy, however, is that Astra's space launch vehicles don't need explosive charges; for orbital (and beyond Earth--Astra is also developing a solar-electric third stage for deep space missions) rockets, that is definitely unusual.
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  #23  
Old 09-08-2021, 12:25 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Solace, Tranquility, Sedator may be good names too.

I stand by my statement of only allowing the RSO having any involvement of explosive abort if they underwrite the cost of the launch vehicle. No BUXX $$, NO control.

DEREGULATE to the point of NO regulation.
I'm sure that even space launches (and, presently, even their low-altitude flight tests) out of the Boca Chica, Texas facility--which SpaceX owns or leases--will be conducted with a Range Safety Officer, or an Epsilon-type autonomous flight termination system, or both, for a very practical reason (beyond even the FAA's requirements): legal liability. If a Falcon 9 or Heavy, or a Starship (with or without the Super Heavy booster), impacted on private--or even public--property, and caused damage (and/or injuries or deaths, *especially* injuries or deaths), SpaceX would be sued into oblivion. Also:

The only places where such a "We'll launch wherever and whenever we want!" attitude holds sway are places like Red China and North Korea (attempts to sue them, by their own citizens, would not end well for the complainants, I suspect...). One of the strap-on liquid propellant boosters from a Long March rocket--which lofted one of China's lunar probes--fell through the roof of a man's house (I've seen a picture of him looking up through the hole in the roof), and that wasn't the first time this sort of thing has happened (see: https://www.google.com/search?q=Lon...Q4dUDCAo&uact=5 ). The government may reimburse such people (for good public relations), but those people probably don't demand it, as that would have bad consequences...
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