"Paper available by request (in .pdf form)"

Oh, they were for real... TONS of Saturn IB and V proposals for upgrading them, some were more "back of the napkin" some actually got real studies done, of course none were ever funded or flown. Interesting what-if's.

I did a ton of "study summaries" with a summary of the .pdf studies that I got off NTRS among other places, since many of the studies are pretty dry reading, lots of technical information of little value or interest for modeling them, and of course all the relevant drawings and information I could gather from them posted in convenient .jpg format here in the scale section. Still got a ton of studies on my computer hard drive but sort of got away from sifting through and summarizing and posting the material. Nobody seemed that interested anyway so it wasn't much encouragement to continue.

OF course since I quit that other rocketry dump forum, I post everything only HERE on YORF, and at Bernie's "Sagitta Cantina" forum, which he was kind enough to give me my own "Luke's Study" vault for the study summaries and basically mirror the information. Some of my stuff is probably still in the archives over at TRF buried someplace, before I dumped that place and quit for good there.

Later! OL J R

__________________
The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!

You should see the plans for the Saturn IB using a 260 inch monolithic solid propellant motor for a first stage, or the one that would have bolted together three Titan III solid rocket motors from the side boosters for a first stage, all ignited together and dropped at staging as a single unit... three solids bolted together in a triangle with an S-IVB second stage on top.

There were even plans for a 'Saturn II' that would have used an S-II stage flanked by four Titan IV SRM's as a first stage, topped by an S-IVB. I did a study summary of that one, and the others.

Personally I think a lot of the solid rocket ideas were non-starters. Solids have a MUCH rougher flight profile than liquid rockets, due to "motor buzz" and harmonics would have been awful. BUT they were looking into it, leave no stone unturned.

I think the most interesting proposal out of everything was for the twin F-1A powered 260 inch liquid rocket boosters (LRB's) for Saturn V. There were proposals for adding 2-4 of these LRB's to a Saturn V-- for a total of 13 F-1's firing at liftoff-- which is insane. I don't think the rocket could have structurally carried a payload big enough to require that much liftoff thrust. More realistic would have been a PAIR of these LRB's, which would still give you 9 F-1's at liftoff, basically a NOVA class rocket using Saturn V. With the seven J-2 engine stretched S-II second stage they proposed in some of the Saturn V upgrades they studied, you could pretty much do anything you wanted to do in space.

Had the LRB's been developed, it would have made a DANDY replacement for the Saturn I-B "cluster's last stand" 9 tank first stage assembly with its heavy spider beams which made up the standard Saturn I first stage. With a single unitary stage made up of a 260 inch oxygen tank over a 260 inch kerosene tank with an intertank, top skirt, and thrust structure to house a pair of F-1A's, that would have made the Saturn IB successor a POWERFUL and very capable booster that could have served the space program for decades to some, and in a three-body "heavy" version (3 first stages connected together with the outer two as "common booster cores" dropped in flight while the center sustainer throttled up and burned to depletion, ala Delta IV Heavy), with SIX F-1's burning at liftoff and a two or three J-2 engine stretched S-IVB variant upper stage, that could have been a bona-fide heavy lift rocket if Saturn V was not continued... instead we got the stupid lame-brain shuttle which was a total mistake and took the space program on a 40 year detour...

Later! OL J R

__________________
The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!

Post up whatever you have, sir !

Dave F.

If you are interested in a number of projects that were proposed but didn't get implemented, take a look at the blog "No Shortage of Dreams" (http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com). The current posting is on "S-IVB/IU Applications: The LASS Proposal (1966)"


To see some really interesting "what if" videos, look up Haze Gray Art on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/c/Hazegrayart). His current video is on the Kistler project. Past videos have included the Dyna-Soar, Star Raker, Saturn V-4X(U) and more.

__________________
Web Site and Blog
https://rocketryjournal.wordpress.com

YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/@AustinAerospace

3D Printing Designs
https://www.thingiverse.com/austin_aerospace_education

Software
https://sourceforge.net/u/austinaerospace/profile