Okay, I'm home now.

The Moon Mutt clearly states, "Complete Mini Launch System Included" on the front and back panels.

However, on the side panel it states, "Requires yellow or white glue, and/or tube type plastic cement, engines, igniters, wadding, and launch system--NOT INCLUDED."

It probably won't confuse too many folks, because who is going to read the side panel and ignore both front and back?

Ah....usually that sort of mismatched documentation really drives me crazy(er) - so far I missed it.

As I mentioned in one of these Estes threads (it may be this one), in one WM store recently I saw 13 Moon Mutts! It seemed that most stores around here (south of Seattle) got two MMs and four each of the "sustainables" (which are the real topic of this thread ) in the first go, but resupply seems all over the place. One WM also had over 20 Ricochets.

Motors packs now seem to be $5.97 here, too, where they are in stock.

At the OPROC launch today my brand new Star Stryker got four flights in. It goes beautifully straight and true. I was quite relieved that I apparently got those five pairs of fins on straight (or with errors that cancel each other out ).

After the initial A8-3 flight it carried one of my How High altimeters (adding 0.3 ounces to the rocket's bare 1.26 ounces). On a B6-4 I saw just over 400 feet and on C6-5 over 850. Not bad, not bad at all. The last flight on it today was a little odd, though. I got such a snap-back from the shock cord that the base of the payload adapter jammed into the BT and got embedded, so the rocket came down on the 'chute but in one piece. The BT is pretty badly crunched for about 3/4 of an inch and the adapter has a nice circular cut. I'll have to decide how to repair it yet. The SS was still on the way up when it ejected, so next time it flies on a C I may have to use a C6-7. With an empty payload section I'd certainly go that route rather than a -5.

James Pierson took some pictures of it after we recovered it....so at some point you'll get to see what that looked like after that fourth flight.

One other thing: there has been much hand-wringing here about those plain white lead-free parachutes and you know what - they are not hard to see at all - even against the overcast sky we had at the launch site today. The white 'chute from my Moon Mutt wound up in my Quest Astra (after the Quest 'chute failed to open twice) and it did just fine and was no problem to see as well. (The Moon Mutt got a 2x about 12 inch crepe paper streamer after the first flight - which is about right. It flew on a 34-year-old A3-4T that way - and went very nicely).

...to bigone5500...I saw where you posted an image of the note I wrote to place in the parachute package. At the time (last November) we were pretty steamed with HR 4040 and CPSC regarding the lead and phthalate issues, so we wanted to make it clear to our customers that the change from a prnted chute to the plain chute was not of our choosing. I imagine that at some point in the not to distance future, we will remove this piece of paper.

Also....I've read about the use of a 12" chute in some of the smaller BT 20 tubed rockets. from Wal-mart. I forgot who wrote the posting about us using what we have, which is true. But when the designer presented these rockets to us and demonstrated the flight profile, the streamer seemed to cause a little more damage on landing than the cute did. And since these first 4 rockets were aimed specifically at what we thought would be average Wal-mart consumer (basic new rocketeer), we thought that providing them with a soft recovery method with less broken parts made more sense than adding the streamers, which as I mentioned, seem to have more broken fins with streamers. You guys are clever and smart enough to know to change them out to A) a smaller chute size or B) replace with a streamer. I ready BEC's comment about hoping to get the 5 fins on the Star Stryker correctly....we provided a chute so that upon landing, the newbie didn't have to head home to glue one or more of those fins back on. We've kicked the idea around of a smaller sized chute, but we haven't got it done...least not yet....there are a lot things on my "to do" on my list, but small chute(s) is down there a ways.
Mike

...you are absolutely correct in that the information on the box is slightly confusing...the reference to the launch system required got by everyone. We have since fixed it, removed the handle from the box and fixed another small typo. We do use a packaging check list...we've adjusted the list to make sure we correspond the correct box labeling with the actual product. Hopefully we can have fewer mistakes like this in the future.
Mike

After having flown my Star Stryker I would agree that the 12 inch 'chute is the right choice (at least wiith the small payload I was flying). I did actually knock one of those little aft fins loose on one landing, but since I had one of my flight bags for my airplanes with me (and therefore some thin CA) it only took a moment to get it ready to fly again.

That all-white material is a little of a challenge to get packed into a BT-20 but the only failure to deploy with that combination I had was the first flight of the Moon Mutt - and it sat on the pad for probably twenty minutes before it was launched....too long for a tightly packed 'chute. I swapped to a streamer and the MM's chute got moved to the 25mm diameter Astra, where it performed just fine. All four Star Stryker flights had a good 'chute deploy, even on the one that snapped back and came down with the payload section stuck to the top of the BT as I described above.

Added later:

James Pierson has posted pictures from last Saturday's launch in its thread over in Mission Control. Two views of the Star Stryker's snap-back damage (showing the configuration in which it landed) are the last two pics in this post . There is one more picture in the next one as well.

On the Moon Mutt and "failure to deploy" - the chute was ejected, it just didn't open. The closed chute was enough of a streamer in that small and light rocket that there was no damage on landing.

Mike/be69ar thank you for stopping by and chatting with us here. It is very nice to have discussions with someone from Estes.

I'm idly curious. Do our spot checking reports of availability at Walmarts around the country help you folks at all?

...while the spot checks are a nice bit of info to have as it tells us that material that has shipped from us to their distirbution centers is moving. However, its just that...a niceity and no practical application when dealing with Wal-mart. They have an extremely sophisticated replenishment system and re-buyers that handle the ordering and shipment of goods to the distribution centers. And as many of you have noted, some stores will have an unusual amount of inventory...others have little if any. Like any large corporation, sometimes the systems sort of works well and the staff at each store gets product out on shelf. Sometimes stores are shorthanded and newly arrivinng inventory sits in the back for a few days before making its way to the shelves and that can be what many of you noted.. Our product, which is classified under the toy label, does not receive the same level of attention as say banana's or other time sensitive products would. Also, not all stores carry Estes...I don't recall the exact number. but while a majority of stores do carry Estes, some do not, but many of you guys shop your local area WM and know if they do or don't. All I can really say is that if it aggrevates you guys with unavailability, it makes us crazy to send out a bunch of product and learn over a period of a week to 10 days that goods are not making it to shelf, or that engines, which are suppose to retail at X, show up on a UPC scan for $3,00....something we just don't understand. They may be the largest and best mass retailer in the world...but they are by no means perfect.
Mike

Mike,

Will you be attending NARAM-51 to represent Estes?

Bob

Hi Bob....as much as we want too, we won't be able to make it to 51. However, I understand that 52 will be hosted by the Pueblo club...with it being so close to us, we will for sure be at that one.
Mike