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  #251  
Old 03-16-2006, 10:18 PM
James Pierson James Pierson is offline
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Default Design: Pointy Probe

Was this what you had in mind Craig? This is what my slightly misunderstood mind can do to an once excellent design.

James Pierson
NAR# 77907
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Last edited by James Pierson : 03-17-2006 at 11:05 PM.
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  #252  
Old 03-16-2006, 11:43 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Pierson
Was this what you had in mind Craig? This is what my slightly misunderstood mind can do to an once excellent design.

James Pierson
NAR# 77907


Nice tweaking, James!

The flight numbers look good, too. Now, all we need to do is build one and see if it does what RocSim says it should.
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  #253  
Old 03-17-2006, 08:20 PM
James Pierson James Pierson is offline
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Lightbulb New Design: Six Shooter

Here is another design and the key word here is HEADS UP with the Six Shooter. I have gotten to the point with this one that I can no longer stand to work on this thing. It is somewhat part heavy and time consuming to bulid. I built the original last year and it works quite well. I really need another set of eyes to ponder this design in Rocsim a while and see if I missed anything.

Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR #77907
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  #254  
Old 03-17-2006, 11:02 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Pierson
Here is another design and the key word here is HEADS UP with the Six Shooter. I have gotten to the point with this one that I can no longer stand to work on this thing. It is somewhat part heavy and time consuming to bulid. I built the original last year and it works quite well. I really need another set of eyes to ponder this design in Rocsim a while and see if I missed anything.

Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR #77907


This one's going to take a while to understand...

I can easily understand the "no longer stand to work on this thing" feeling, just by looking at the line drawing. (I see you've figured out the 3D imaging tool...)

I'd give this a Skill Level 5 without hesitation.
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  #255  
Old 03-17-2006, 11:16 PM
James Pierson James Pierson is offline
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Yes I think I am getting the hang of the 3D images, however they are not any fun!
Do you really think that the Six shooter is skill 5. It was not that bad to build. Check in rocsim under Attributes (more) for the building notes. If it is level 5 no one will want to build it. I have accurate hand drawn plans if you need them but scanner and digital camera are broken.

Thanks Again and take you time with the six shooter.

James Pierson
NAR #77907
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  #256  
Old 03-17-2006, 11:43 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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James,

First look at this design, and I really have to ask...

Did your undershorts survive?


The simulation flights show that on the B4-2, you needed a 75" launch rod before the model even reaches a safe flight speed.

On the B6-2, you would need 56"...

On the C6-3 you need 55"...

This thing has to be growling at you as it exits a 36" standard rod, and is probably not tracking straight up during any portion of the flight!

You need the power of the Apogee D10-3 as a minimum starting point for this model as it weighs nearly 5 oz. One thing I also noticed, even with this motor, is that the initial static margin is 0.76. We're starting with an under-stabilized model, which goes stable while still moving up the rod. That C6-3 starts out with a margin of 0.9.

If I understand the general concept, the model has six free-fall pods that recover on streamers. These are supposed to fall off at deployment of the parachute. It should give the appearance of the boosters coming off of the Boeing Delta II.

One suggestion that I might make is to change the core tube from the BT-50 to the ST-10. This way you can slip a 24mm mount into the core and get that extra "kick in the pants" it really needs. The D10-3 gets the model to a safe velocity in just 24", and deploys at 365' with a Dv of 19 FPS. This puts the model into the upper end of the safe region.

I ran into this very same problem with the Triton 3-stage model earlier. The current crop of boosters just don't have the instant impulse needed to lift these larger-than-normal models. That's why you've heard this list howling for the B14 -- a core-burning motor with a very high thrust spike. The closest available motor that your design needs would be the Estes D12-3 (a 24mm motor) or that Apogee D10-3 (an 18mm motor).

If you haven't located the flight data "print out" already, go to the Flight Simulations tab and select one of the simulated flights. Double-click on whichever flight you want to examine, and you'll get a flight data popup. Scroll down until you see the Launch Guide Data section, and it will tell you about the required guide length and other important data.

You weren't kidding when you said "heads up"...
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Last edited by CPMcGraw : 03-18-2006 at 12:00 AM.
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  #257  
Old 03-17-2006, 11:50 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Pierson
Yes I think I am getting the hang of the 3D images, however they are not any fun!

Do you really think that the Six shooter is skill 5. It was not that bad to build. Check in rocsim under Attributes (more) for the building notes. If it is level 5 no one will want to build it. I have accurate hand drawn plans if you need them but scanner and digital camera are broken.

Thanks Again and take you time with the six shooter.

James Pierson
NAR #77907


I think the design is a bit more complex than a Skill 3, and has at least as much complexity as the Saturn 1B models. Maybe a 5 is high, but I don't think it's any lower than a 4. It's not just the building that rates the higher level, but the operation of the model as well. You have to get some of the pre-flight stuff just right for the model to perform as intended.

Put it this way -- It's most certainly not a beginner's model. You really need some building experience to work on this one. I'm thinking of how the PDF might look if I were to write this one up as a full-blown instruction manual, and how many pages might be required...
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  #258  
Old 03-18-2006, 12:16 PM
James Pierson James Pierson is offline
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Wink

Thanks Craig, I appreciate all your input. Looks like I should consider the Six Shooter as a work in progress. You may make a rocket scientist out of me yet.

The mad scientist in me says: I reject your reality and subsitute my own fiery underpants.

James Pierson
NAR #77907
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  #259  
Old 03-18-2006, 06:41 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Exclamation New Plan -- Swizzle Stick

Here's a fun design...

The double ring fins give this model tons of stability for any of the motors listed below, but the drag from them will also rob the model of a good bit of its top-end performance. RocSim says it will fly!

Construction Note: The individual tubes for the ring fins do not touch each other, but are separated by a small gap. You will need to reduce and adjust this gap equally on the rear ring to accomodate the launch lug, which wedges into the gap between two of the tubes. Also, if you plan on flying with the upper-end "F" and "G" motors, you might want to attach the tubes with epoxy...

18" parachute recovery.

D12-3.......410'.....20 FPS.....48" Rod
D21-4.......500'......7 FPS.....36" Rod
D24-4.......500'......6 FPS.....36" Rod
E15-4.......969'.....13 FPS.....48" Rod
E18-4.......927'.....15 FPS.....36" Rod
E28-5.......890'......3 FPS.....36" Rod
F12-5......1010'.....25 FPS.....48" Rod
F21W-4.....1185'.....19 FPS.....36" Rod
F24-4......1050'.....24 FPS.....36" Rod
G55-5......1865'.....15 FPS.....36" Rod

Skill Level 3.

Enjoy!
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Last edited by CPMcGraw : 03-18-2006 at 06:48 PM.
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  #260  
Old 03-18-2006, 06:54 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Pierson
Thanks Craig, I appreciate all your input. Looks like I should consider the Six Shooter as a work in progress. You may make a rocket scientist out of me yet.

The mad scientist in me says: I reject your reality and subsitute my own fiery underpants.

James Pierson
NAR #77907


Yeah, a work in progress would be a good description. I have a few of those still taped above my head on the hutch doors around my personal "cube farm" of one...

I don't think Six Shooter is a really big problem...

It just needs a really big motor...
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