According to John's tube reference list on YORP

http://rocketshoppe.com/info/Estes_Body_Tube_List.pdf

having never had this kit, had assumed maybe a runing change ( ie: newer plans on YORP show one tube ) .

Possibly an error on John ( and co ? ) list, but would be the first one that's cropped up .
( and THANKS GUYS for the excellent and helpfull reference, I have it saved for use , and doso regularly when cutting tubes,saves running to each individual plan, or great for " what can I build with this tube"

Same list shows Vector as 5.0" ( and Pulsar, would have to measure my vintage builtup Pulsar, will do that today when out to the 'rents, if I remember ) .

Also of note is a 6" tube,as used on the Hawkeye and red Alert kits, so possibly Star Dart used a 6" tube in later years ?

hmm...

~ AL

note : double posting this in plans so as to get this thread back on topic and the Star Dart thread on it's own .

Hey man... guess what... it IS a two piece! Sorry, I should have taken a closer look before saying it was one. I just got it down to measure it for you and saw that. Two 3" pieces, and right near the joint is a little balsa bulkhead with a half of a pie cut out of it.

Let me know if you need any further info that can be gathered from one that's still in existence.

__________________
Daniel Runyon Net

I just noticed this in the catalogs: Through 1986, the Star Dart is listed with a balsa nose cone, but in 1987 (the last year it was carried) the catalog shows it changed to a plastic nose cone. This is where our current set of plan scans came from. I will have to update the Extended Kit List to show this change in design.

From this data, and from what Al has already said, it does suggest Estes had two very different versions of this kit. The first version used the two-piece tube, with a hollow balsa coupler. This was simplified to a simple nose-blow with a one-piece tube and plastic nose cone; and Estes was able to reduce the parts count by three (the coupler, the screw eye, and one tube).

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Craig McGraw

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SAM 0044
AMA 352635

Hey Al;

Just noticed this posting now; with all of the traveling I'm way behind on my reading. I'll be returning home later this week so I'll dig into my kits and let you know what I find.

Regarding the point about the Vector and the 5.0" tube, I can assure you that the measurement is quite accurate. One of the things I found when compiling the list is two distinct 5" tubes - one type consistently measured out as 5-3/32" (the BT-5P/5.1" long), and a second that was exactly 5.0", as found in the Vector. I never encountered a measurement in between (unlike other tubes, like the BT-50L, where the length was found to vary over a range), causing me to speculate the possibility that Estes either changed the length of the BT-5P at some point or that the 5.0" tube was a new one, and different than the BT-5P.

Anyway, sorry for the delay in catching your post; let me get home and dig up that Star Dart.

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John
YORF #003
SAM #004

Hi Al;

Got home earlier today, and managed to track down my Star Dart. I can confirm the tube data that I used in the Book of Tubes. Photos following.

Regarding the Vector, it happened to be in the same storage container. Body tube is exactly 5.00" long; see earlier note about this.

Attached Thumbnails

     

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John
YORF #003
SAM #004

Since that package is still closed up, one presumes it's part of a collection...

If only you could get a good, clear scan of the fin sheet, then we can confirm or deny that they're the same as the Vector...

Thanks for the shot of the parts list...

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Craig McGraw

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SAM 0044
AMA 352635

Hi Craig;

Yes, I'm afraid that Star Dart is part of a collection, so it's not going to be opened for a while. But that doesn't mean we can't find a way to answer your question.

I dug the kit out again to have a second look. The fin stock provided in this particular kit is just a sheet of 1/16" balsa (no die cuts); the Builder was to use the supplied fin template to trace, and then cut out, the fins. I've attached a photo below that shows the template - root edge is 1-1/16" long.

As you know, the Vector was supplied with a 1/16" die cut fin sheet. I took one of the fins from my open Vector kit, and overlaid it on top of the Star Dart fin template (2nd photo). You'll see that the Vector fin has a larger root edge (1-1/4"), and the sweep angles are different. It would appear that the two kits had two entirely different fins.

Attached Thumbnails

   

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John
YORF #003
SAM #004

Thanks for the scan. That explains why the catalog image looked different. What we have here is two different rocket designs using the same name, catalog number, and decal. Attached is a copy of the simplified, late-model instruction sheet with the fin pattern shown, and a scan of the fin sheet indicated as part of the kit. These images were taken from the set posted on YORP.

I'll try to get a cutting pattern from your scan, John. This gives us a chance to build a closer-to-original Star Dart clone than before.

Attached Thumbnails

 

Attached Files

est0860b.tif (214.1 KB, 113 views)

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SAM 0044
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John,

See if this outline matches your fin pattern...

Attached Thumbnails

 

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Craig McGraw

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SAM 0044
AMA 352635

Hi Craig;

I printed your pattern and then scaled it to the root edge dimension (1-1/16") of the template provided in the kit. Your pattern is very close; probably with a little tweaking of the angles you'll be able to get it spot on. Here's the data I took from the template, measuring as accurately as I could:

Root: 1-1/16"
Leading: 1-21/32"
Tip: 15/32"
Trailing: 1-5/32"

Noting that the angle between the Leading Edge and the Tip Chord is precisely 90 degrees.

Regarding your analysis of the situation, I can confirm. I took a die cut fin from my open Vector kit and compared it to the one in the scan as well as the late model template that you provided in the earlier post, and it is evident that the Vector fins and the late model (1987) Star Dart fins are identical. As you say, we have two different models with the same name, same livery, and same kit number. Most likely the change came in 1987, the Star Dart's last year, when the Star Dart switched to the PNC-5A nose cone (same as the Vector). The deception occurs because Estes continued to use the old Star Dart artwork in the catalog, rather than update it. Probably a lot of this has been covered already in the earlier thread (which I can't seem to find!).

Anyway, great sleuth work Craig; glad I was able to help. Means I have to make an update to the Nose and Tube lists!

__________________
John
YORF #003
SAM #004