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  #581  
Old 08-06-2006, 01:14 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Exclamation LOC Viper IV Simulation File

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaquin
Do you have a RockSim file for the Viper IV standard kit that you could post? I'd like to build 4 dummy motor tubes into the design to make it two stage and see what the DV's and altitudes are with 4 D12-0's staged to 4 D12-5(7)'s.


I didn't have the original Viper IV simulated, so I went into the dungeon and pulled out the original fins. See attached. There is a big difference at the top end...

I haven't found a suitable high-end "E" or "F" motor that has a suitable time delay. I suppose you could customize a reload delay chain to get the optimum deployment time...

The G55-15 is a sweet motor, though. Four of these park it over 6600'...
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Name:  LOC Viper IV 2D.jpg
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Name:  LOC Viper IV 3D.jpg
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Name:  LOC Viper IV Fin Outline.jpg
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Size:  50.4 KB  
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File Type: rkt LOC Viper IV.rkt (85.4 KB, 86 views)
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  #582  
Old 08-06-2006, 01:30 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Exclamation Revised Plan -- ViperJet 4256 Mk II

Here's a revised version, with the fins rotated back to the original Viper IV locations between the motor tubes. The simulation runs represent combinations of composite reloads that fit the 24mm tubes.

Enjoy!
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Name:  ViperJet 4256 Mk II 2D.jpg
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File Type: rkt ViperJet 4256 Mk II.rkt (68.4 KB, 90 views)
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  #583  
Old 08-06-2006, 03:12 PM
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snaquin snaquin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
I didn't have the original Viper IV simulated, so I went into the dungeon and pulled out the original fins. See attached. There is a big difference at the top end...

I haven't found a suitable high-end "E" or "F" motor that has a suitable time delay. I suppose you could customize a reload delay chain to get the optimum deployment time...

The G55-15 is a sweet motor, though. Four of these park it over 6600'...


Hey thanks Craig. I appreciate you putting that RockSim file and those patterns together for me! I'm going to try to sim it like my friend flys his at our field, chad staged. There is a lot of fin area with that kit and it's a pretty stable design.

I'm with you. Optimum deployment time with this rocket is more critical because that size Loc tube will zipper easier than others because of the thinner wall thickness.

I still have (3) G55-10 motors left that I've been saving in my range box for a few years now. I flew a cluster of (3) G55-10's in an EnerJet 2650 clone I built from that same dia Loc tubing and even though only two of the three motors lit it still pushed that rocket to a respectable altitude but I did zipper the tube on that flight. I have a picture of that flight posted in another thread:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/atta...tachmentid=2748

If I could have ignited all the motors in that cluster that flight would have been equal to a 375ns "I" motor with almost a 2-1/2 sec burn. G55's are sweet indeed
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  #584  
Old 08-06-2006, 04:40 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaquin
I'm with you. Optimum deployment time with this rocket is more critical because that size Loc tube will zipper easier than others because of the thinner wall thickness.


Steve,

What's a good weight value for an electronics package, all-up? I've been wanting some kind of "mass value" to save in the RockSim database for HPR future projects, but I'm not certain the current measurements in the database are "complete", as in, does the weight shown include batteries and pyro holders and "other stuff"?

What's a good "ballpark" figure?
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  #585  
Old 08-06-2006, 05:44 PM
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snaquin snaquin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
Steve,

What's a good weight value for an electronics package, all-up? I've been wanting some kind of "mass value" to save in the RockSim database for HPR future projects, but I'm not certain the current measurements in the database are "complete", as in, does the weight shown include batteries and pyro holders and "other stuff"?

What's a good "ballpark" figure?


I use the PerfectFlite miniAlt/WD. A PerfectFlite miniAlt/WD Altimeter & 9v battery I plug in 2.293 oz in my RockSim designs. I also use one or two (for single or dual deploy) of the QuickBurst EZ small ejection canisters and I just weighed one of those at .2 oz on my scale. I'd add a couple of grams of black powder to that and you should have a real close estimate to ballpark it.

That's what I use. I'll look through my RockSim designs. I have actual weights for the Loc 3" and 4" electronics bays in a couple of the Loc rockets I built. I'll get that for you.

Edit:

Ok, I also weighed one of the QuickBurst EZ large ejection canisters. Those are .6 oz each. The only project I ever used the large ejection canisters with was 5.5" in dia. The small canisters as a rule will generally work well with up to 4" dia. airframes.

Just FYI and to give you some idea of how Loc sets up their electroics bays, I attached a file for a 3" diameter rocket I built that was designed with one from Loc. To sim the altimeter in the design, I center it in the middle of the electronics bay as a mass object. It's pretty much centered on the little plywood board they give you anyhow. The mass item in the design marked as "EB-3.00 Hardware & Additional Components" is all the 1/4-20 hardware, nuts, plywood board ect. - really everything else other than the bulkheads and couplers. I just center that mass object too since those parts would pretty much balance at the cg of the bay.

I guess to sum it up if you are flying your electronics package in a payload section instead of an electronics bay you'll probably want to add mass objects for at least the altimeter and battery, one or two of those disposable ejection canisters, 1 - 2.5 grams of black powder in each canister and a small plywood sled or weigh some foam rubber if you decide to let the altimter ride without mounting it

.
Attached Files
File Type: rkt LOC PK-67 HyperLoc 300.RKT (52.5 KB, 85 views)
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Last edited by snaquin : 08-06-2006 at 06:18 PM.
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  #586  
Old 08-07-2006, 07:01 PM
James Pierson James Pierson is offline
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Lightbulb New Design: Upscale Mini Jet #4

Here is an upscale of my favortie, Mini Jet #4, or should we now call it a Maxi Jet?? It flies on alot of 18mm motors and I am too lazy to,post the Stats.

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907
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Name:  Upscale of Mini Jet #4 Image.jpg
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File Type: rkt Upscale of Mini Jet #4 18mm.rkt (75.9 KB, 103 views)
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  #587  
Old 08-07-2006, 10:33 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Pierson
Here is an upscale of my favortie, Mini Jet #4, or should we now call it a Maxi Jet?? It flies on alot of 18mm motors and I am too lazy to,post the Stats.

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907


Call it a "Midi Jet #4" -- Maxi Jet #4 will use the 24mm motors...
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  #588  
Old 08-08-2006, 07:09 PM
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snaquin snaquin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
I didn't have the original Viper IV simulated, so I went into the dungeon and pulled out the original fins. See attached. There is a big difference at the top end...

I haven't found a suitable high-end "E" or "F" motor that has a suitable time delay. I suppose you could customize a reload delay chain to get the optimum deployment time...

The G55-15 is a sweet motor, though. Four of these park it over 6600'...


Craig

Well, I ran a sim with the chad staged D12-0 to D12-7 in the design. A good friend of mine has flown that set up several time at local and national launches but I was surprised that it really isn't such a great performer with that set up. It only sims to 2,033 feet chad staged (simulation #6). I left the original flight data from your standard flight profiles and it would appear to make more sense to just fly it with a cluster of four E9's to 1,657 feet .....

It was pretty cool to watch but that cost of an additional four D12's is only working out to an extra 376 feet in altitude
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Name:  LocIV Chad Staged D12-0 to D12-7.jpg
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TRA# 677 L2
NAR# 85518 L2
SAM# 0052

🚀 In Construction: Der Blue Maxx/Minie-Magg 5.5” & Vander-Burn MDRM Clone w/Stickershock23 Custom Decals
🚀 In Paint & Detail: USR Banshee
🚀 In Build Queue: Estes Doorknob w/Vander-Burn Rocketry Upgrade Kit [Sport Decor], Semroc Centurion-F, Semroc Egg Crate
🚀 In Repair: SLS Lil’ Hustler, SLS Aero-Dart 1969 Trim
🚀 4/10/21-4/11/21 w/rain date of 4/17/21-4/18/21
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  #589  
Old 08-09-2006, 09:35 PM
James Pierson James Pierson is offline
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Default New Design: Cargo Star Transport

Here is a new design I call the Cargo Star Transport. I had originally named this design the Space Truck but that sounded too un-rocket like. I really like the Two BT-20 tube fins with the BT-60 rings around them. I plan on using this fin design more in the future on some other designs. This one is also a park fiier as it uses 13mm motors.

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907
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File Type: rkt Cargo Star Transport.rkt (56.7 KB, 83 views)
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  #590  
Old 08-10-2006, 07:38 AM
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Ltvscout Ltvscout is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Pierson
Here is a new design I call the Cargo Star Transport. I had originally named this design the Space Truck but that sounded too un-rocket like. I really like the Two BT-20 tube fins with the BT-60 rings around them. I plan on using this fin design more in the future on some other designs. This one is also a park fiier as it uses 13mm motors.

I must say, you have quite the imagination, James! You've come up with some really cool looking designs.
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