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  #151  
Old 02-01-2009, 09:13 PM
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georgegassaway georgegassaway is offline
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>>>>>
“Tim Kendall of Phoenix, AZ builds Coaster-powered R/C R/G”
Not sure if this means he built the Dynasoar with RC or another scratch RC RG.
<<<<<

Well ,there is . . . .
#1 - Building an R/C model.
#2 - Flying an R/C model. And then . . . .
#3 - The R/C model flying successfully (not just gliding, but actually under control).

All I get out of the above is #1, the other two are left up in the air.

Kind of like all those massive number of “X-Prize” entries. Oh, they were almost all “building” something, but very few flew, and only one worked to meet the prize objectives. Or for that matter, look at how many people were building “flying machines” before December 17, 1903?

>>>>
I may be wrong, but I think Bernard Biales actually did the first public demo of RC BG followed by Doug Malewicki and his Snoopy RC BG.
<<<<

That may be true. Stine’s 1967 edition of the Handbook mentioned Biales as : “working on ultra-small RC boost gliders, but as of this writing I have not seen a radio-controlled boost glider fly successfully”. But the missing piece is the confirmation that Biales eventually did get his working before Malewicki did. I’m not saying he didn’t, I’m just trying to be sure, as, again see the above 1-2-3 criteria.

Hmmm, you mentioned Malewicki’s Snoopy R/C B/G. The Glider in his Model Rocketry Mag 3-part series is not named, IIRC. Certainly not the plan. I do know he did have a glider named Snoopy, but was that really what he first flew successfully with R/C? Maybe it was later named Snoopy due to the wing shaped and than a later one painted up to look like Snoopy dog ears?

I see a photo of Snoopy being launched out of a custom-built Dog House at NARAM-13, in the Oct 1971 issue. No mention of R/C.

OK, I found on page 26 (PDF page 26) of the November 1970 issue, NARAM-12 that he flew a Snoopy F/F in Swift (B) B/G, but used an un-named R/C B/G for spot landing.

>>>>>
http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showp...96&postcount=46
shows an ad with a RC antenna.
<<<<<

At first glance, that is what I thought too. But in looking at the plans, that is a music wire landing skid, used for the model whether F/F or R/C. It is not an antenna.

- George Gassaway
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  #152  
Old 02-01-2009, 10:01 PM
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George,

I think this can't fly without the RC.....and with the RC it may be difficult.

I had to add weight to the tail to get even close to an acceptable glide. And, as you know, adding weight to the aft end of a rocket has a tendency to cause it to be unstable when you add the motor.

DaveR (Dave Richardson) and I had suspected that the clips came off under boost and thought they could be seen in slowed video of the launch. Could not confirm. I think what is seen in the slowed video is just a igniter cap or something...but not the clips. Still a mystery as to what happened to the clips.

As I've got it built, the model weighs in at just over 8 ounces without the motor mount and motor (glide weight). Currrently, replacing the nose cone so I can try another launch. Was planning a lower impulse F but if you think an E15 would be adequate, I can give it a try. Of course, if that works, then the design needs to be changed to accomodate a 24mm motor. That might help with stability but probably more eight will be needed for the glide. Or, the up elevator can be adjusted down......Hhhmmmmm......maybe I should lessen the elevator instead of adding weight? Ok....let me see if shimming the elevator so there isn't as much will help. Sounds logical. Going to have to give it a try.....

As for the plans......I scanned a set that was provided by Jack Komorowski......known here as Rocketflyer. They appeared to be an original set. I sent the plans back to him. I do have a full set or two plus full size scans. I'm not sure what size are posted here.
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  #153  
Old 02-01-2009, 10:04 PM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
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I found 2 references to RC BG flighta at NARAM-7 in August 1965.

The 1st was Coaster powered by a F15-4 and it pranged by a Mitch Pines, 16 of NY.

The 2nd was attempt was by a Dr Morrow and Sons, who showed up with a Coaster Centauri adapted for 2 channel RC. It was also F14 Coaster powered and it also pranged.

the 1st Rc BG failure was a burn string deployment failure while the 2nd failure was an ejection charge failure.


Bernie showed a RC BG at NARAM-8 in 1966. Theres a pic but no clear answer if it was ever flown. At least at this NARAM. I asked Bernie about this and I forget what he told me. SO I was wrong if he actually demoed it then, I guess.

The Snoopy Bg was freeflight I guess. The RC BG that he flies ,sounds like his one in Model Rocketry.

The 1st RC BG I was personally ever aware of was the Doug Malewicki one in Model Rocketry.

hth

terry dean
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  #154  
Old 02-02-2009, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgegassaway

Did Buzz ever fly the R/C model? If so, what happened?

- George Gassaway


Hi George,

Buzz Nau. Sorry I haven't replied sooner, but I've been uber busy which is more the norm than the exception these days.

I haven't flown mine yet, but I do have almost all the RC gear installed. My plan is to loft it on a NCR Arrow-type clone. That vehicle is still in work. I'm building so it can boost the Coaster as well as my NCR Avatar. I had hoped to have it all done and airborne last summer. Now I'm hoping for this spring. If all goes well with the Arrow boosts then I may attempt an RC boost... we'll see.

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  #155  
Old 02-02-2009, 02:24 PM
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georgegassaway georgegassaway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barone
As I've got it built, the model weighs in at just over 8 ounces without the motor mount and motor (glide weight). Currrently, replacing the nose cone so I can try another launch. Was planning a lower impulse F but if you think an E15 would be adequate, I can give it a try. Of course, if that works, then the design needs to be changed to accomodate a 24mm motor. That might help with stability but probably more weight will be needed for the glide. Or, the up elevator can be adjusted down......Hhhmmmmm......maybe I should lessen the elevator instead of adding weight? Ok....let me see if shimming the elevator so there isn't as much will help. Sounds logical. Going to have to give it a try.....


Heck at 8 ounces, even an E15 is sort of overkill.

A the very least, you can test fly it on a D12. A D12 can put a pound of anything up a hundred feet or more. And if things go badly on boost, good thing it is only a D12. If it goes very well, then you can try an E11 or E15.

As for accommodating a 24mm motors, well, a 29mm fits, so all you need is an adapter. Where the real problem of fitting a motor could be if anyone wanted to use a 32mm RC casing in order to use an F13 or G12 reload. Ok, I just realized you probably meant keeping the adapter inside, and only ejecting the engine, in which case you would need to modify the model to work with ejecting a 24mm motor, but that would be a good thing. Then you’d have less o a CG shift from liftoff with loaded motor to glide when the engine ejected. Which then would mean for a desired CG for glide, then the CG would be LESS AFT for boost, which would make it more stable.

I really do think that second 180 degree turn (when it went from pointing down to pointing up) looked more like an unstable flip than a pitch-loop. When a RBG does loops on boost, or half-loop into the ground, it tends to be close to a constant radius once it gets enough airspeed going, where more speed just means it loops faster rather than tighter.

Also, possibly that F25 got it moving so fast that the elevons fluttered. That is probsbly the FASTEST that design ever went. Like putting an Aerotech D13 into an Astron Space Plane.

As for adjusting for weight, definitely simply reduce the elevon angle to work with an E15 or D12, instead of adding dead weight in the back to make up for the weight difference from an F25. Take note that the adapter mount will add something there too. Then you’d have less for a CG shift from liftoff with loaded motor to glide when the engine ejected.

- George Gassaway
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  #156  
Old 02-02-2009, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgegassaway
Heck at 8 ounces, even an E15 is sort of overkill.

A the very least, you can test fly it on a D12. A D12 can put a pound of anything up a hundred feet or more. And if things go badly on boost, good thing it is only a D12. If it goes very well, then you can try an E11 or E15.

As for accommodating a 24mm motors, well, a 29mm fits, so all you need is an adapter. Where the real problem of fitting a motor could be if anyone wanted to use a 32mm RC casing in order to use an F13 or G12 reload. Ok, I just realized you probably meant keeping the adapter inside, and only ejecting the engine, in which case you would need to modify the model to work with ejecting a 24mm motor, but that would be a good thing. Then you’d have less o a CG shift from liftoff with loaded motor to glide when the engine ejected. Which then would mean for a desired CG for glide, then the CG would be LESS AFT for boost, which would make it more stable.

I really do think that second 180 degree turn (when it went from pointing down to pointing up) looked more like an unstable flip than a pitch-loop. When a RBG does loops on boost, or half-loop into the ground, it tends to be close to a constant radius once it gets enough airspeed going, where more speed just means it loops faster rather than tighter.

Also, possibly that F25 got it moving so fast that the elevons fluttered. That is probsbly the FASTEST that design ever went. Like putting an Aerotech D13 into an Astron Space Plane.

As for adjusting for weight, definitely simply reduce the elevon angle to work with an E15 or D12, instead of adding dead weight in the back to make up for the weight difference from an F25. Take note that the adapter mount will add something there too. Then you’d have less for a CG shift from liftoff with loaded motor to glide when the engine ejected.

- George Gassaway

I have an enhanced version (zoomed and slo-mo) of that video if you'd like to take a look at it. I haven't watched it in a while, but I'm thinking Don had a pod that ejected versus just ejecting the engine. Don???????
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  #157  
Old 02-02-2009, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveR
I have an enhanced version (zoomed and slo-mo) of that video if you'd like to take a look at it. I haven't watched it in a while, but I'm thinking Don had a pod that ejected versus just ejecting the engine. Don???????

Yeah....entire motor pod so you can attach a streamer/parachute. I think I'll get some parts to make a pod that fits what I have built but for 24mm. Needs a little more repair work. My grandaughter had grown attached to it.......
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  #158  
Old 02-02-2009, 10:22 PM
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One of the reasons I included the long ejectable pod is to add weight to the front for stability and get rid of it for glide phase.
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Last edited by Carl@Semroc : 02-03-2009 at 02:14 PM.
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  #159  
Old 02-03-2009, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl@Semroc
One of the reasons I encluded the long ejectable pod is to add weight to the front for stability and get rid of it for glide phase.


OK. With this thread so long, I did not exactly read every word the other day. Or did read it but missed noting that, since I was looking more for the drawings and if anyone was really known to have flown it (or anything) R/C back then, and what present-day models flew.
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  #160  
Old 02-05-2009, 12:28 PM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
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George, the Oct 69 issue of Model Rocketry has a cover photo of Doug Malewicki launching his RC BG at NARAM-11 in August 1969.

This is the same RC BG that his 3-part MRm series was about and in the 1st installment he states that he started work on this RC glider in 1967.

This may have been the 1st public demo of a successful RC BG flight.

EDIT

Back in sept 2005 I had an email conversation with Doug Malewicki about his RCBG and this was his response:

"Naram 9? If Colorado Springs, CO, I did fly my RC BG, but not in competition. Just for a fun demo a couple of times"


He obviously means NARAM-11, as NARAM-11 was held at Colorado Springs,CO. But does he? Doug also attended NARAM-9 at Mankato,MN were their is a pic of his Snoopy FF BG.

No mention by GHS as to RC BG.

Bernard Biales was there and won Hawk BG


I've got an email out to Bernard Biales asking him about his RC BG background, and have asked him if he flew his Swift class RC BG at NARAM-8 in Aug 1966.


EDIT

Bernard got back to me and says his model never flew. He also stated that as far as he knows, Doug Malewicki was the 1st to fly small RCBG.



I tend to agree with you that the Coaster Centauri was probably never flown with RC except for that one pranged flight; so if somebody does it today, it would be a 1st.

hth

terry dean
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Last edited by shockwaveriderz : 02-05-2009 at 03:10 PM.
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