Been looking for a fin pattern for the Ace Rocket Manufacturing Mongrel. Any have one they can scan and share?

I'm interested in cloning the ACE Mongrel.

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-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President

Chris Pearson and I are working on reproducing dimensional data so that we can clone the Mongrel in anticipation of the 40th anniverasry of LDRS-1. I am still working on getting the fin dimensions just right.

Chris shared these pics of an original, 40-year old, Ace balsa nose cone next to a PML plastic nose cone and gave me permission to share. Korey Kline made these balsa nose cones on a lathe in his garage, and there was a lot of variation in nose cone lengths. Chris's example is 17.75-inches long and has a 1.5-inch shoulder. The fiberglass extension is not original. Korey was a fan of long nose cones, and was known to make balsa nose cones with L/Ds as long as 5:1 and even 6:1. These were the early balsa nose cones that were in use before the advent of the famous ACE 4-inch plastic nose cone in the 1980s.

The one photo of an Ace Mongrel that one can easily find shows Chris standing next to Ace Mongrel kit #1. The black nose cone is all nose cone - long. It looks like a nose cone with a piece of body tube extention, but it isn't.

Mark Canepa's book, Large and Dangerous Rocket Ships, describes the Ace Mongrel kit in Chapter 3. He describes a rocket with 1/8" thick fins, an 18" nose cone, 4" diameter, that stood about 5-feet tall.

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__________________
-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President

In case there are some who are interested in reproducing the color scheme of the first Ace Mongrel kit - please check out the attached photos. There were two blue fins, and a yellow fin. The previously unreleased photo of the launch of the Ace Mongrel at LDRS-1 (under all three F motors lit) shows the fourth red fin.

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__________________
-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President

The NCR Phantom series, the 4000 in particular, looks like it was highly inspired by the Mongrel. The 4000 was my first high power kit really, though it was only intended to fly through G. I flew mine sometimes on H’s. The HD version though certainly was designed for larger motors. Never had it.

Chris is a great guy....been a pretty good while since I last spoke with him though.

Earl

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Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970

Very interesting thread Wolf and great information. I recognize the photo of Chris but I wasn't aware that was Ace Mongrel kit #1 or that the black nose cone pictured was all one long nose cone.

These are fin dimensions that I had saved. Compare with what you were working with in your file as I did not have a chance to download or view your OpenRocket file before you removed it.

4 Trapezoidal 1/8" Fins
Root Chord Length: 8"
Tip Cord Length: 2"
Sweep Length: 8"
Sweep Angle: 55 Deg.
Semi Span: 5.625"

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Steve Naquin
TRA# 677 L2
NAR# 85518 L2
SAM# 0052

🚀 In Construction: Der Blue Maxx/Minie-Magg 5.5” & Vander-Burn MDRM Clone w/Stickershock23 Custom Decals
🚀 In Paint & Detail: USR Banshee
🚀 In Build Queue: Estes Doorknob w/Vander-Burn Rocketry Upgrade Kit [Sport Decor], Semroc Centurion-F, Semroc Egg Crate
🚀 In Repair: SLS Lil’ Hustler, SLS Aero-Dart 1969 Trim
🚀 Stay Tuned For Fall 2021 Launch Dates

That early ACE/PML nose cone comparison shows why I used an ACE 4" cone for my upscales that needed a PNC-60AH profile back in the early 90's. The longer body and rounded tip was much closer to the 60AH profile. I eventually started turning my own balsa upscales, but the ACE cones served me well in my early HP/EX days.

I like that #1 paint scheme.

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I love sanding.

The .ork file that I put up there went out of date quickly.

I've encountered these fin dimensions in rocksim files of two U.S. Rockets versions of the Mongrel. These files can be found on the Rocket Reviews website . When I compare them to a photo of the original, the semi-span seems too wide and the tip cord too short. So I don't believe that these represent the original.

See attached drawings that illustrate what I see, and the .ork file.

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Attached Files

Ace Mongrel 1980.ork (1.6 KB, 15 views)

__________________
-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President

Your rendering is definitely truer to what I see in the picture. Looks like you have it really close Wolf. I didn't realize U.S. Rockets ever offered a Mongrel kit but I do remember pictures from the old California Rocketry Magazines and other ACE stuff being in there.

I found those dimensions in a folder where I have some old plans for a LaserLOC, some NCR Hypersonic kits, and fin patterns and other HPR stuff I picked up around the time of LDRS-8. I thought possibly those dimensions could have come from the old Rogers Aeroscience ALT4 program when it ran in DOS and you had to call Fred Brennion every time you needed to upgrade the program! They had some kit examples in the program but I'm not really sure that's where those dimensions came from. I may have obtained them from my friend Scot that ran TRA HQ back then but I definitely had interest at the time of building a Mongrel one day because I saved them. I'll check out your .ork file when I get back later tonight, thanks

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Steve Naquin
TRA# 677 L2
NAR# 85518 L2
SAM# 0052

🚀 In Construction: Der Blue Maxx/Minie-Magg 5.5” & Vander-Burn MDRM Clone w/Stickershock23 Custom Decals
🚀 In Paint & Detail: USR Banshee
🚀 In Build Queue: Estes Doorknob w/Vander-Burn Rocketry Upgrade Kit [Sport Decor], Semroc Centurion-F, Semroc Egg Crate
🚀 In Repair: SLS Lil’ Hustler, SLS Aero-Dart 1969 Trim
🚀 Stay Tuned For Fall 2021 Launch Dates

Good afternoon, Wolf,

I have an unbuilt Ace Mongrel kit . . . I got it off of eBay, 4 or 5 years ago.

Wouldn't it be great, if I shared that info with you ?

But, on further reflection, I just remembered something else I need to do . . . Happy hunting !

Dave F.

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"Failure Is Not An Option . . . Adapt & Overcome ! "

NAR # 26128 L2
TRIPOLI # 517 L2 ( inactive, at present )

In the picture you posted the nose cone appears to be black on ACE Mongrel #1. In another picture from LDRS-1 where Heidi Smakula is holding the Mongrel the nose cone appears to be blue. Is that just the direct sunlight shining on a black nose cone or is it blue? The red fin is also visible in this picture.

http://www.northernohiotra.com/history/ldrshistory.html
.

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__________________
Steve Naquin
TRA# 677 L2
NAR# 85518 L2
SAM# 0052

🚀 In Construction: Der Blue Maxx/Minie-Magg 5.5” & Vander-Burn MDRM Clone w/Stickershock23 Custom Decals
🚀 In Paint & Detail: USR Banshee
🚀 In Build Queue: Estes Doorknob w/Vander-Burn Rocketry Upgrade Kit [Sport Decor], Semroc Centurion-F, Semroc Egg Crate
🚀 In Repair: SLS Lil’ Hustler, SLS Aero-Dart 1969 Trim
🚀 Stay Tuned For Fall 2021 Launch Dates