Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > The Golden Age of Model Rocketry > Model Rocket History
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #31  
Old 02-24-2021, 11:29 PM
fuzzoli fuzzoli is offline
Junior Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 14
Default

Hey there Rocketronix people!

I apologize in advance for reviving an old thread, but I wanted to let the group know about a project I'm working on.

In short, I'm in the process of cloning the original Transroc. I had one back-in-the-day, and I thought it might be a fun project to get one up and running.



Instead of duplicating what I've already posted, here's the link to the project page here on YORF:

https://oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=19183

This second link is a more technical Build Log for those interested:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/proje...ry-transmitter/

Stay safe!

-Frank
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  3D Model.png
Views: 0
Size:  141.1 KB  
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-01-2021, 02:32 AM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,162
Default

There's no need to apologize, Frank, and in fact, thanks are in order, and here are mine! The Transroc isn't just an interesting piece of vintage model rocket equipment (although it is that), but is a device that is equally useful today, as it was back then (probably even more so today, now that the signal [data] recording and analysis equipment, and software, are so ubiquitous; plus, the CB band isn't used as much today, so signal interference would occur only very rarely), and:

While the Transroc (which was sold both pre-built and in kit form) uses a printed circuit board, that isn't a necessity for a home-brewed clone. Perfboard (which is made of the same phenolic board used for printed circuits, but without the copper film, and with rows of small holes [perforations, hence the name]), with soldered wire connections between the electronic components, will work just as well (printed circuit boards make the large-volume and even mass production of electronic devices easier). The Fourth and Fifth Editions of G. Harry Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry" (and probably earlier ones, too) include, in the chapter about payloads, schematics for two CB rocket transmitters. One is a very simple, single-transistor, "Here I am!" beacon transmitter, and the other is a three-transistor, AM-FM telemetry transmitter (a drawing of it--showing its perfboard, its electronic components, and the wire connections between them--is also included, along with the schematic). However:

"Roll your own" PCB (Printed Circuit Board) kits are even available now, which enable an individual to make his or her own printed circuit boards at home; ham radio operators and schools often use these, but for making just one or two devices, using perfboard and wire is probably cheaper. (Hams who are into QRP--low-power operation--often use oscillator crystals [which, by themselves, can be used as QRP Morse Code transmitters at Short Wave and other frequencies--*this* https://makerf.com/posts/fun_with_c...illators_part_1 site shows an AM band one] with PCB kits, to make pocket-size QRP transmitters [and even transceivers; some hams sell these in kit form]; the battery, Morse Code key, and antenna and ground wires are connected via standard jacks or plugs, whose leads are soldered to the PCB inside the case [which can be a standard electronic project cabinet box, or even an Altoids mints--or Sucrets throat lozenges--package box!].) Also:

For small-scale batch, "cottage industry" production, though, the PCB kits are ideal; if one were going to make five or more Transrocs, and their various sensor modules (any patents on them are long expired), exact duplicates could be made using the PCB kits (if I seem to be hinting at something [involving Ebay and/or Etsy], I am... :-) ).
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-01-2021, 06:56 PM
fuzzoli fuzzoli is offline
Junior Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 14
Default

...maybe I will post a bit more of 'status' here....

The goal of this project is to make as close of an exact duplicate of the original Transroc as possible. The links in my previous post have more technical details, but here's a summary:

The boards are done. Unless you need a board "today", it's almost not worth it these days to etch your own boards. It is so cheap that you can get dozens made for literally a few dollars. In fact, shipping from China cost more than the boards.


^-- sorry for the out-of-focus photo.



The modulator section has been breadboarded and is working. I'm working on the RF section now.

The coils have been wound based on the data in the manual.



If you were hinting at the $250 price tag for the Microphone kit on ebay, I seriously doubt it will sell at that price. In fact, just a couple of months ago the Microphone and Spin Rate kits sold for $39/$52 respectively. Most of the manuals are posted over at transroc.org.

So things are moving along...
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-02-2021, 07:07 AM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzoli
...maybe I will post a bit more of 'status' here....

The goal of this project is to make as close of an exact duplicate of the original Transroc as possible. The links in my previous post have more technical details, but here's a summary:

The boards are done. Unless you need a board "today", it's almost not worth it these days to etch your own boards. It is so cheap that you can get dozens made for literally a few dollars. In fact, shipping from China cost more than the boards.


^-- sorry for the out-of-focus photo.



The modulator section has been breadboarded and is working. I'm working on the RF section now.

The coils have been wound based on the data in the manual.



If you were hinting at the $250 price tag for the Microphone kit on ebay, I seriously doubt it will sell at that price. In fact, just a couple of months ago the Microphone and Spin Rate kits sold for $39/$52 respectively. Most of the manuals are posted over at transroc.org.

So things are moving along...
Oh, no, I had no particular price in mind (and I haven't yet looked at the Transroc items on Ebay). I was hinting that if you'd like to produce Transroc beacon transmitter clones (possibly including the add-on instrument modules, such as the roll-rate sensor, microphone, temperature sensor, etc. [see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...74/74est52.html ]) in some quantity, a lot of people--myself included--would be interested in buying them. (Your pictures of the already-printed PCBs, and the inductor assemblies, look like a small Transroc production batch.) Also:

Regarding the custom PCBs' low cost, I read on a ham radio website (after posting my message here late last night) that local PCB printing houses, like local printing houses (they're like small POD--Print-On-Demand--publishers), can print multiple, custom-layout printed circuit boards for quite low per-PCB costs, even if only about five copies of the PCB are needed. Amateur radio clubs often make up batches of soldering practice kits, Morse Code oscillator kits [for code practice], simple radio receiver kits [such as Short Wave Xtal sets <crystal radio receiver kits>], and QRP [low-power] transmitters and/or transceivers that utilize custom-printed PCBs, for amateur radio clubs in schools, Scout troops, and 4-H clubs, and:

At the school in the isolated town of Eagle, Alaska, Professor Neal Brown--a long-time ham radio operator and a former Director of the Poker Flat Research Range [our sounding rocket launch site, 30 miles north of Fairbanks]--teaches the "Middle School grades" kids at the Eagle Community School how to solder connections properly and build radios, using such kits that he (in concert with the local Arctic Amateur Radio Club) has made up in small batches; he teaches the lessons via a Skype audio and video connection. It is very effective; each year, several of the kids earn their FCC Technician class amateur radio licenses (and when the Novice class licenses were still offered in previous years, the children earned those). Even those who choose not to become amateur radio operators learn useful--and marketable--skills in proper soldering of electronic circuits, how to read resistor color band codes, how to test transistors and other electronic components to determine whether they're still in working order (transistors' wave forms on an oscilloscope screen yield such information), and so on; plus:

The Transroc clones that you're making might also interest them and their teacher, Marlys House (she also has a long-running model rocketry STEM--Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics--courses enrichment program, and over the years Neal and I have located and donated model rocketry equipment to her program). She and Neal might prefer the Transroc kits, as they could combine the electronics & radio lessons with the model rocketry STEM courses enrichment program. Also, the Transroc would be useful in R/C model sailplanes, as a "model-finding beacon," and the temperature sensor module would probably be useful in such models for finding thermals (bubbles or columns of warm, rising air, which sailplanes--full-scale as well as model ones [even F/F--Free-Flight--model ones]--ride in order to gain altitude, over Sun-heated darker ground areas).
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-02-2021, 08:23 AM
tbzep's Avatar
tbzep tbzep is offline
Dazed and Confused
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 10,552
Default

I have zero education on electronics. However, I've been buying old junk police scanners, crystal and early programmable ones, and repairing them. It's usually bad capacitors and the occasional cold solder joint, so I'm not doing much more than replacing caps, cleaning pots, and resoldering here and there. Once done, I get to have some cool looking retro electronics that work, even though modern stuff is available. I completely understand why you are doing your project and have enjoyed every post.
__________________
I love sanding.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-03-2021, 02:32 AM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
I have zero education on electronics. However, I've been buying old junk police scanners, crystal and early programmable ones, and repairing them. It's usually bad capacitors and the occasional cold solder joint, so I'm not doing much more than replacing caps, cleaning pots, and resoldering here and there. Once done, I get to have some cool looking retro electronics that work, even though modern stuff is available. I completely understand why you are doing your project and have enjoyed every post.
You probably know more than you consciously realize. As the manuals for the Tandy (Radio Shack) 75-In-1 and 150-In-1 Electronic Projects sets explain as they go from project to project, electronic devices (even the most sophisticated and complicated ones) are simply combinations of various "module circuits"--Darlington amplifiers, two-transistor (or tube) flip-flop circuits, Wheatstone bridges, Kalliotron oscillators, tank circuits, bandpass and filter circuits, and so on--that were invented or discovered long ago, and are combined in various ways in radio and television receivers, radio transceivers, TV cameras, scanners, phonographs, audio amplifiers, tape and disc recorder/players, computers (which use many AND, NAND, OR, and NOR "gate circuits" [which are analogs of the "IF/THEN" Logic Truth Table statements that are used in geometry, hence these circuits' collective name of "Logic Circuits"]), WiFi devices, and even doorbells and model rocket launch controllers, and:

You probably have seen and recognized these various module circuits many times (and noticed how they are found in all sorts of electronic devices [and in their power supply circuits]), but not knowing their names, you just couldn't point to one and say--to give just one example--"*That's* a Darlington amplifier!" (a very common module circuit using two transistors, whose leads are connected to that the two transistors work 'in tandem' to boost an input or output signal). But if you looked up these module circuits in an electronics dictionary (Tandy had good ones, probably available on AbeBooks, Amazon, etc.) or encyclopedia that shows their schematics, I'm sure you would instantly recognize them.
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-03-2021, 08:41 AM
tbzep's Avatar
tbzep tbzep is offline
Dazed and Confused
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 10,552
Default

I know just enough to wish I had taken a course or two when I was in college. lol
__________________
I love sanding.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-03-2021, 10:48 AM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
I know just enough to wish I had taken a course or two when I was in college. lol
I can relate; I was just lucky to have a neighbor who was a ham radio operator, and (later) a friend who had taken electronics courses at a technical high school in Miami, and became an electronics technician. One of my brothers-in-law, although he was a doctor (a pathologist), was also interested in electronics; he loaned me his copy of the Tandy book "Understanding Solid-State Electronics" (readily available on AbeBooks.com: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Se...onics&kn=&isbn= ), which I highly recommend as a primer on the subject. The "Radio Shack Dictionary of Electronics" (see: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Se...onics&kn=&isbn= ) and "Antennas: Selection, Installation and Projects" (see: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Se...jects&kn=&isbn= ) are also great references), and:

RadioShack (with no spacing between the words: https://www.radioshack.com/ ) is, I was happy to discover, still in business, and doing quite well. The name Tandy (and it was, indeed, the same firm of "Tandy Leather" fame; I'd wondered about that, as there was a Tandy Leather shop near our home in Miami) was changed to RadioShack Corporation in 2000, and later simply RadioShack (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RadioShack ). Below are links to other Tandy/Radio Shack reference and project books (and their old 75-In-1, 150-In-1, and other electronic projects sets can still be found on Ebay--they're excellent [and solder-less, and fully reusable, except for the AA and 9 volt batteries] "learn-by-doing" kits):

Tandy Books Archive (sort of like the JimZ and Ninfinger Productions of Tandy books): https://archive.org/details/tandy_books

120 Tandy (RadioShack) publications download "batch": https://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Shac...F-/123593132539 [It costs $5.99, but is well worth it--this would be perfect to keep on a memory stick, for read-out on a computer screen, from where the publications could be printed as desired]

"The Science Fair Story/History of Electronics" https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/comics.htm
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:56 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe 1998-2021