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Old 12-13-2020, 09:12 AM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
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Smile Anybody have a Brown Manufactured or Carlisle Original Roc-A-Chute Motor?

This specifically applies to any of the Orv Carlisle handmade motors. Don't know if anybody here may have one but it doesn't hurt to ask. But if you also happen to have a Brown Manufactured motor, this may apply too.

IF you have either, can you shine a light into the "nozzle" and see if it extends up into the propellant any appreciable way. I'm looking for the signs of a combustion cavity.

I know Orv used 2 methods to create his handmade motors:

1. Hand Ramming with a mallet and
2. with a small Arbor Press....

I also know his nozzles only had a simple cylindrical core in the clay nozzle part.

Depending on what tooling he had, there may have had an inadvertent small combustion cavity atop the clay nozzle? But it wouldn't be that pronounced. Orv himself admitted that he sometimes made the "vent" as he called the nozzle orifice a little too deep.

Now the Brown Manufactured motors were actually pressed with Air-Hammers..... mentally wrap your head around that procedure..... Air Hammering Black Powder.......what could possibly go wrong with that idea?

If anybody can help me out it would be greatly appreciated. Especially any pics with rulers of the nozzle area on these motors.

For prosperity sake, if there was some non-destructive way to get a mold of these nozzles, perhaps simple silly putty ?

Attached is what I think are Brown Manufactured MMI Roc-A-Chutes. You will notice a basically flat "nozzle" facing with a cylindrical nozzle . Since we know the diameter and length of this rocket motor, perhaps somebody could do some photogrammetry .

For those of you who have never seen a Zenith Fireworks "buzz Bomb" I have attached a photo. It was from this casing 18mm x 70mm that all future model rocket engines were based upon, until of course we got D,E,F.

Patent for Buzz Bomb:

https://patents.google.com/patent/U...rence+w.+brown+

Also attached is the only known Thrust_time curve of an original Orv Carlisle made model rocket motor. the engine dates to 4/58 but wasn't tested till 1962, 4 years later..... Notice the very small Max thrust spike? that tells me that there was a minimal combustion cavity, if any at all.

TIA

TD
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Name:  Carlisle 4-4-1 Model Rocket Engine 458.jpg
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Last edited by shockwaveriderz : 12-13-2020 at 11:13 AM.
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  #2  
Old 12-13-2020, 12:08 PM
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Royatl Royatl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shockwaveriderz
This specifically applies to any of the Orv Carlisle handmade motors. Don't know if anybody here may have one but it doesn't hurt to ask. But if you also happen to have a Brown Manufactured motor, this may apply too.

IF you have either, can you shine a light into the "nozzle" and see if it extends up into the propellant any appreciable way. I'm looking for the signs of a combustion cavity.

I know Orv used 2 methods to create his handmade motors:

1. Hand Ramming with a mallet and
2. with a small Arbor Press....

I also know his nozzles only had a simple cylindrical core in the clay nozzle part.

Depending on what tooling he had, there may have had an inadvertent small combustion cavity atop the clay nozzle? But it wouldn't be that pronounced. Orv himself admitted that he sometimes made the "vent" as he called the nozzle orifice a little too deep.

Now the Brown Manufactured motors were actually pressed with Air-Hammers..... mentally wrap your head around that procedure..... Air Hammering Black Powder.......what could possibly go wrong with that idea?

If anybody can help me out it would be greatly appreciated. Especially any pics with rulers of the nozzle area on these motors.

For prosperity sake, if there was some non-destructive way to get a mold of these nozzles, perhaps simple silly putty ?

Attached is what I think are Brown Manufactured MMI Roc-A-Chutes. You will notice a basically flat "nozzle" facing with a cylindrical nozzle . Since we know the diameter and length of this rocket motor, perhaps somebody could do some photogrammetry .

For those of you who have never seen a Zenith Fireworks "buzz Bomb" I have attached a photo. It was from this casing 18mm x 70mm that all future model rocket engines were based upon, until of course we got D,E,F.

Patent for Buzz Bomb:

https://patents.google.com/patent/U...rence+w.+brown+

Also attached is the only known Thrust_time curve of an original Orv Carlisle made model rocket motor. the engine dates to 4/58 but wasn't tested till 1962, 4 years later..... Notice the very small Max thrust spike? that tells me that there was a minimal combustion cavity, if any at all.

TIA

TD


Those are indeed Brown Mfg motors. The Estes-made Rock-a-Chutes are not appreciably different from motors made until 1969, because they were all made on Mabel-1. The casings were slightly different, as either Vern found a better supplier along the way, or the supplier improved the paper used. The motors I have are made with a rougher, lighter-colored paper, unlike the smooth brown kraft paper we're more familiar with.
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