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  #1  
Old 05-18-2011, 12:13 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Default Estes A3-6T, anyone?

Hello All,

The discussion on the recent thread about minimum-cost model rocket kits for schools and youth groups, especially those in low-income areas (see: http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showt...10&page=1&pp=10 ) raises another possibility, for a "new" motor.

To achieve impressive altitudes with 13 mm mini motors, the models could be minimum-diameter rockets not unlike the Aerospace Speciality Products 13 mm Streamer Duration and Parachute Duration kits (see: http://www.asp-rocketry.com/store/c...fm?Category=176 ), although equipped with standard sport streamers. Depending on the rockets' size and mass, even BT-20/#7 size models could perform well on 13 mm motors.

Such rockets (especially minimum-diameter ones) could get the maximum altitude out of the Estes A3-6T mini motor (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...74/74est54.html ). Also, if Estes put the A3-6T back into production, it would greatly improve the performance capabilities of their new two-stage mini motor powered kits. As a bonus, this motor would again be available to competition flyers.
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http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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Last edited by blackshire : 05-18-2011 at 12:19 AM. Reason: This ol' hoss done forgot somethin'.
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  #2  
Old 05-18-2011, 12:33 AM
El Cheapo El Cheapo is offline
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The A3-4T is too short for a lot of 13mm birds, specifically cardstock. I've stopped buying them in favor of 1/2A3-4T. A six second delay would save a lot of wear and tear on the minimum diameter rockets.
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  #3  
Old 05-18-2011, 12:42 AM
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Royatl Royatl is offline
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The last time Estes manufactured some A3-6T, for Ed LaCroix's Apogee twenty years ago, they were "full to overflowing". At least most of the ones I have are. Barely enough room for the clay cap, and in some cases, not enough.
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:24 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
The last time Estes manufactured some A3-6T, for Ed LaCroix's Apogee twenty years ago, they were "full to overflowing". At least most of the ones I have are. Barely enough room for the clay cap, and in some cases, not enough.
I bought a few of those when Ed offered them, but I never had a chance to try them--I gave them to the Dade County Rocketry Association when I moved. They fit nicely in my mini motor rockets, though. Were your Apogee Components A3-6Ts reliable?
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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  #5  
Old 05-18-2011, 01:28 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Cheapo
The A3-4T is too short for a lot of 13mm birds, specifically cardstock. I've stopped buying them in favor of 1/2A3-4T. A six second delay would save a lot of wear and tear on the minimum diameter rockets.
If memory serves, very light "Mini Brute" rockets like the Javelin and Super Flea also "climbed short" on the A3-4T and A10-3T, while the A3-6T allowed them to trade most or all of their velocity for altitude.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
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  #6  
Old 05-18-2011, 07:33 AM
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Shreadvector Shreadvector is offline
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Everything you say is correct, but I am confused by your mentioning of the minimum cost kits and schools and youth groups, especially those in low-income areas.

Are you linking the schools, etc to the A3-6T motor/ Do you see a need for the A3-6T with these groups? Do you see sales potential?

I ask, because those groups typically need the exact opposite: they must NOT use a motor that can fly too high because the small rockets will fly out of sight and recover outside the school yard. Students cannot leave school property to run across roads to try to recover insanely high flying rockets, nor can the disappear into the adjacent neighborhood hunting through backyards for their lost rockets.

Youth group and school program rockets are best launched and recovered within the school yard. Hence the bulk packs of 1/2A3-4T and Up Aerospace models. They really could use bulk packs of 1/4A3-3T motors and they were going to make those at one time (and even had a product number) but then they had to reduce the total number of products being marketed at that time and the porposed new bulk pack was dropped along with some other motors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Hello All,

The discussion on the recent thread about minimum-cost model rocket kits for schools and youth groups, especially those in low-income areas (see: http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showt...10&page=1&pp=10 ) raises another possibility, for a "new" motor.

To achieve impressive altitudes with 13 mm mini motors, the models could be minimum-diameter rockets not unlike the Aerospace Speciality Products 13 mm Streamer Duration and Parachute Duration kits (see: http://www.asp-rocketry.com/store/c...fm?Category=176 ), although equipped with standard sport streamers. Depending on the rockets' size and mass, even BT-20/#7 size models could perform well on 13 mm motors.

Such rockets (especially minimum-diameter ones) could get the maximum altitude out of the Estes A3-6T mini motor (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...74/74est54.html ). Also, if Estes put the A3-6T back into production, it would greatly improve the performance capabilities of their new two-stage mini motor powered kits. As a bonus, this motor would again be available to competition flyers.
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  #7  
Old 05-18-2011, 08:28 AM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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I would be interested in the A3-6T or even an A3-5T.
I can see the A3-6T having FAR more legitimate uses than any A3-2T !
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  #8  
Old 05-18-2011, 09:15 AM
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JumpJet JumpJet is offline
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Quote:
The last time Estes manufactured some A3-6T, for Ed LaCroix's Apogee twenty years ago, they were "full to overflowing". At least most of the ones I have are. Barely enough room for the clay cap, and in some cases, not enough.


Which is why this motor is NO longer produced. I tried to get it back!


John Boren
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  #9  
Old 05-18-2011, 10:11 AM
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Royatl Royatl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpJet
Which is why this motor is NO longer produced. I tried to get it back!


John Boren


It would've been nice if Estes had just followed MPC's lead in 1971 and made 2.25" long motors instead of going with 1.75".
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  #10  
Old 05-18-2011, 10:18 AM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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Totally agree with Roy's above statement.
Should have went with the MPC/Centuri length; many more available options including B-motors in the longer case.
How about making an A3-5T and/or an A10-4T then ?
Either would be a needed addition and that would fit.
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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

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, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
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