Not at all. Their existence is owed to the Internet. Would either of them be around if they had to break in to retail the way they did in the 60's and 70's? The internet doesn't eliminate the natural chasm between startup and establishment, but it makes it a lot shallower by granting access to customers beyond retail.

Once I see FlisKits or Semroc in over, say, 50% of the retail places that Estes is at (not counting the Big Boxes, of course), then you might consider it disproved.

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Roy
nar12605

As long as engines are widely available, I don't think a matching brand is as important as it might have been in the past.

The absence of 1/2A and A boosters is a good example of why there is little new or innovative kits to use low power boosters. The places available to fly two-stage rockets with a minimum of a C6-0 is growing smaller all the time. If the C6 was a C12 or C20, at least you could do low altitude two-stage rockets with heavier designs. That is just my opinion. I always liked two-stage rockets that you could see and recover. I also liked the B14-0 because I could make the rocket a little heavier.

I am not sure if Estes and Quest dropped the small boosters and port engines because of low demand or they dropped them to create low demand. I guess we will be working on finding out which it is.

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Carl McLawhorn
NAR#4717 L2
semroc.com

I think Estes was motivated by reducing cost and simplifying inventory. Quest is probably at the mercy of having to buy large manufacturing lots from overseas (but then, when they *did* have their own machines, they didn't diversify too much).

Still you'd think they'd have heard about our field situation here in the populous east, what with the buildings and trees and the soccer moms and all.

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Roy
nar12605

It's probably a dog-chasing-tail problem, beginning with a lack of design direction toward the small motors. Most of the cataloged designs for small motors seemed to go in the "smaller is better" way of thinking, which leads to models like the Mosquito, Quark, and 220 Swift. How many of these have we ourselves lost after just one flight, even on 1/4A and 1/2A power? Lose enough of them, you start getting tired of losing them, and you stop flying them, and then you stop buying the motors because you've stopped flying them...

I'm really interested in the 13 and 10 mm category for my "Schoolyard Sounders" series. Small field issues hit very close to home for me, and right now it prevents me from enjoying multi-stage designs. Having boosters in these sizes would open up a lot of possibilities.

__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
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BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

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SAM 0044
AMA 352635

I agree with what you're saying but you're orignal message was:

On the other hand, one of the purported psychological barriers of entry in the hobby industry for small rocket kit manufacturers is the lack of a similarly branded line of motors.

Clearly entry into the hobby hasn't been a problem. Going mainstream and getting into hobby stores is another thing entirely and you're right about that.

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Bill Spadafora
http://www.billsplumbing.com
billspad@comcast.net bill@billsplumbing.com

Carl,

Not sure if you missed my earlier post about a port burner not being included in the proposed 24mm size? Is a high thrust E engine an oversight or left off the proposed list for a reason? Just curious

.

__________________
Steve Naquin
TRA# 677 L2
NAR# 85518 L2
SAM# 0052

🚀 In Construction: Der Blue Maxx/Minie-Magg 5.5” & Vander-Burn MDRM Clone w/Stickershock23 Custom Decals
🚀 In Paint & Detail: USR Banshee
🚀 In Build Queue: Estes Doorknob w/Vander-Burn Rocketry Upgrade Kit [Sport Decor], Semroc Centurion-F, Semroc Egg Crate
🚀 In Repair: SLS Lil’ Hustler, SLS Aero-Dart 1969 Trim
🚀 Stay Tuned For Fall 2021 Launch Dates

That's the point I was making. The internet-enabled portion of the rocketry hobby is wonderful, but when I go into a mainstream hobby store and I see a store full of planes, trains, and automobiles, while there's like only a shelf with all Estes stuff for the rocket section, you gotta wonder what it's gonna take to go mainstream.

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Roy
nar12605

The drawing is not completed yet. There are plans for port burners in all sizes, but I have never made one larger than the 18mm 3/4C19 size. They may not be practical, but I want to keep them on the list until we know.

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Carl McLawhorn
NAR#4717 L2
semroc.com

I wonder how long mainstream is going to be bricks and mortar. I live about 10 miles north of Boston. There is one hobby store (I'm not counting Michael's) that's reasonably close to me and it doesn't even have a good selection of planes, tranes, and automobiles. I could spend an afternoon driving to NH and back for a slightly better selection or I could just order what I want online. I don't think anything I've ordered from Semroc has taken more than a week. There are others who are also as fast and that's the key. Think about Amazon. Order it on Monday and have it in your hands on Wednesday.

__________________
Bill Spadafora
http://www.billsplumbing.com
billspad@comcast.net bill@billsplumbing.com

Carl,

I don't know if you've already picked out a tube size to use with the 15mm motors, but I came up with this prospective list based on the dimensions of the 13mm ST-5. I'm calling these tubes ST-6, since the OD is around the 0.6" mark. This allows essentially the same amount of slip / play as the ST-5 has with 13mm motor casings.

ID = 15.088 mm (0.594")
OD = 15.750 mm (0.620")
Wall: 0.013" (Same as ST-5)

Semroc ID# Length
ST-6180....18.0"
ST-6120....12.0"
ST-6100....10.0"
ST-690......9.0"
ST-675......7.5"
ST-660......6.0"
ST-650......5.0"
ST-630......3.0"

I tried to pick out a good cross section of lengths for general model building, with the ST-630 as the motor tube.

__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635