Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > Work Bench > Scale & Sport Scale Rocketry
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-15-2021, 09:26 AM
GuyNoir's Avatar
GuyNoir GuyNoir is offline
NAR # 19250 - Life Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Woodstock, IL
Posts: 443
Default

__________________
A dark night in a city that knows how to keep its secrets. But high above the quiet streets on the 12th floor of the Acme Building, one man is still trying to find the answers to life's persistent questions. Guy Noir, Private Eye.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-15-2021, 07:40 PM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,303
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNoir
Yes--the HAD (High Altitude Density, powered by a Gosling IV first stage motor and a LAPSTAR second stage motor; the "standard" HAD released an Arcas ROBIN-type aluminized polyester film [6' or 2 m in diameter] balloon at apogee, which was tracked optically and by radar [a few HAD rounds lofted instrument payloads]) was a reliable and inexpensive vehicle. I am familiar with that useful and interesting article (the model is still on display, inside a case, at the Woomera Museum), but:

I was referring to the HAT (High Altitude Temperature) rocket, which is virtually un-documented; I have seen only one photograph (in Peter Morton's "Fire Across the Desert"), and no drawings, of a HAT round, on a rail launcher (the same one that HADs were also fired from). Its three-finned LAPSTAR second stage looked just like the HAD second stage, with the same bare-metal cone-cylinder payload fairing (or "head," as the Australians and the British called it), which contained the separating, parachute-lowered instrumented payload, and:

The HAT's first stage, though, was a side-by-side cluster of two surplus British military Demon rocket motors, which were smaller than the Gosling (the Gosling and LAPSTAR were also surplus British military rocket motors; the Australians made the nose cones, interstage transitions, and tail assemblies [later Australian sounding rockets used domestically-produced rocket motors, too]). Plus:

The HAT's first stage fins, which were nearly rectangular (they had long, narrow triangles "cut from" their leading edges; they were essentially "stretched-span" clipped delta fins), were attached to their rocket motors--two fins to each Demon motor--in the common "cruciform" ("+") configuration. Because the first stage had *two* rocket motors, the four fins formed an "X"--rather than a "+"--when the first stage was viewed from above or from below. The interstage transition was like the X-17's Stage 2/Stage 3 one (although it was shaped to adapt two--rather than three--lower-stage rocket motors to a single upper-stage motor)--the upper end of the transition interstage was made to accept the three-finned, single-motor (LAPSTAR) second stage.
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-15-2021, 07:46 PM
Ez2cDave's Avatar
Ez2cDave Ez2cDave is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,062
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNoir


Mark,

That is scale data for the HAD . . . The HAT is, essentially, the same upper stage, but with a totally different, two-motor booster.

Dave F.
__________________
"Failure Is Not An Option . . . Adapt & Overcome ! "

NAR # 26128 L2
TRIPOLI # 517 L2 ( inactive, at present )
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-15-2021, 08:56 PM
Ez2cDave's Avatar
Ez2cDave Ez2cDave is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,062
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
I have seen only one photograph (in Peter Morton's "Fire Across the Desert"), and no drawings, of a HAT round, on a rail launcher (the same one that HADs were also fired from).


I just found an electronic copy of "Fire Across The Desert", online, in PDF format.

I did not see an image of the HAT in the book ( almost 600 pages ).

Dave F.
__________________
"Failure Is Not An Option . . . Adapt & Overcome ! "

NAR # 26128 L2
TRIPOLI # 517 L2 ( inactive, at present )
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-19-2021, 08:51 PM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,303
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ez2cDave
I just found an electronic copy of "Fire Across The Desert", online, in PDF format.

I did not see an image of the HAT in the book ( almost 600 pages ).

Dave F.
I think a HAT photograph is in Morton's book. If not, the picture--showing a HAT round on one of the rail launchers at the Woomera rangehead area, near where the Skylark tower launcher was--is in a photocopied WRE (Weapons Research Establishment) brochure; one of the now-deceased WRE sounding rocket researchers (it might have been Peter Twiss) sent me some old WRE material years ago. Peter Alway or Roy Houchin may now have it; I gave them both a lot of my old scale and historical material.
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-19-2021, 11:11 PM
Ez2cDave's Avatar
Ez2cDave Ez2cDave is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,062
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
I have seen only one photograph (in Peter Morton's "Fire Across the Desert"), and no drawings, of a HAT round, on a rail launcher (the same one that HADs were also fired from).


You have a PM . . .

Dave F.
__________________
"Failure Is Not An Option . . . Adapt & Overcome ! "

NAR # 26128 L2
TRIPOLI # 517 L2 ( inactive, at present )
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-20-2021, 12:24 AM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,303
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ez2cDave
You have a PM . . .

Dave F.
I've answered it (I was having supper).
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:33 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe 1998-2021