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  #41  
Old 01-30-2021, 09:37 AM
frognbuff frognbuff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_650
Sounding rockets could be a bit rough and improvised so I wouldn’t be surprised if they painted the black fin on the spot. The people who worked this project would probably be amused at our focus on the rocket rather than what they were measuring - the results of nuclear bomb tests


Undeniably true. All sounding rockets are just tools to the users, and they waste little time making them look pretty! At least this is actually paint. I roll my eyes more when I see models (take the Argo D-4 Javelin, for example) where we replicate "rub marks" from the handling cradle!
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  #42  
Old 02-08-2021, 06:23 AM
frognbuff frognbuff is offline
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I have an extra boattail and launch shoe set. Also includes a set of plywood fins and rings. First come, first served - all you have to do is be willing to pay $15 for shipping. PM me please!
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  #43  
Old 02-08-2021, 10:23 AM
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"Replication of shipping cradle handling marks " ????
Good Grief....
And I thought filling tube spirals was ridiculously going too far....
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  #44  
Old 02-08-2021, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
"Replication of shipping cradle handling marks " ????
Good Grief....
And I thought filling tube spirals was ridiculously going too far....

You have the cradle markings and the replication of frost on cryo liquid fueled scale models that I've seen on and off in scale competitions (photos, I don't compete) over the years.

IIRC, the Estes Nike Apache had decals of cradle marks. It's just rub marks on the real thing, likely with dirt or grease ground into the paint, but the decals are perfectly straight.
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  #45  
Old 02-08-2021, 10:54 AM
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Earl Earl is offline
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Are the 'cradle marks' on some of the real vehicles (the Nike-derived boosters in particular) basically just the 'true' color of the Nike booster (there were/are thousands of those booster motors left over after they were decommissioned) where they could not get white paint to while it was laying on the cradle when it was being painted for sounding rocket use (Nike-Smoke, Nike Tomahawk, etc.)? That is what I always thought, as opposed to where the cradle may have rubbed/scratched the white paint.

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  #46  
Old 02-08-2021, 11:00 AM
Scott_650 Scott_650 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Are the 'cradle marks' on some of the real vehicles (the Nike-derived boosters in particular) basically just the 'true' color of the Nike booster (there were/are thousands of those booster motors left over after they were decommissioned) where they could not get white paint to while it was laying on the cradle when it was being painted for sounding rocket use (Nike-Smoke, Nike Tomahawk, etc.)? That is what I always thought, as opposed to where the cradle may have rubbed/scratched the white paint.

Earl

IIRC some of those Nike boosters were painted with a roller! Makes me wonder why I do all that sanding...😆
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  #47  
Old 02-08-2021, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Are the 'cradle marks' on some of the real vehicles (the Nike-derived boosters in particular) basically just the 'true' color of the Nike booster (there were/are thousands of those booster motors left over after they were decommissioned) where they could not get white paint to while it was laying on the cradle when it was being painted for sounding rocket use (Nike-Smoke, Nike Tomahawk, etc.)? That is what I always thought, as opposed to where the cradle may have rubbed/scratched the white paint.

Earl

There's a decent possibility that their original white (over OD) was painted while on the cradles. Or it may have just been the many re-paints over the years of display models done that way. Either way, it's not a perfectly rectangular strip like the Estes decal portrays.

I've heard the marks described as grease, though I don't really know why they would grease the cradles. The whole idea is to hold the booster in place...the opposite job of grease. lol.
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  #48  
Old 02-08-2021, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
... It's just rub marks on the real thing, likely with dirt or grease ground into the paint, but the decals are perfectly straight.


Indeed. I've attached a photo of Javelin 8.27 underscoring the point. Cradle marks are evident, as are the effects of a lot of handling - smudges, dirt, scratches, etc.

To GH's point, going to those lengths in a quest for realism is likely beyond the pale for a sport model - why bother? Put a nice coat of paint on it, and fly it. By the time it's recovered, it will have handling marks and scratches all of its own.

Where the "markings" become more relevant is in Scale competition. The way the rules are written, the model is judged by what the Judge does, and does not, see in the supporting documentation. So on a round like the Javelin, where the cradle marks are rather pronounced (on all three stages prior to the payload section, I might add), you risk being dinged if you choose not to represent them. And yes, you can be dinged if you make what are fundamentally fuzzy markings "too crisp or perfect".

Ah yes, but what about all those smudges and weathering effects? Fair point, and a Judge, I suppose, could make an issue of that (although it would be a lot of work to produce what, in effect, would be a rather crappy looking model, and I'd say that would be a rather tough judge in our Sport).

So too are the paint colors - you're judged on how closely the colors on the model match those in the photo - in the photo I've attached, it's hard not to note the distinctive "warm" or yellowish tint to the photo. But if that's what's submitted, that's how you'll be judged. You can't just say or use "White" or "Red".

Same thing with markings - adding decals of markings that aren't supported by one's documentation is a risk. Even if you're pretty sure the marking would be there (say it's the "United States" on the backside of the round in the attached photo, which I know is there). If you don't have documentation substantiating that other side, you might not wish to add the marking to your model. Judges can be picky, cantankerous things.

The nit I like is dimensional accuracy. We're always told the measurement on the model is compared to the drawing/blueprint one includes in one's data pack. And I get that, as that's the only reference the Judge has, but if one were to look at an actual blueprint, the dimensions are for the as-manufactured/as-machined item, not the finished painted item. The paint is extra in real life.

All of which is a rather long way of saying one should work to one's goals - if your objective is a nicely painted sport model, or a sport-representation of a real life prototype, have at it. Or, perhaps the mood hits to take on the challenge of producing a more authentically finished model for Scale competition purposes, then why not? Both motives, and both challenges, are completely valid. Which, coming back to the subject of the thread, is why we will no doubt see both Sport versions and Scale versions of the Doorknob. Estes has done a good job creating the conditions for that choice.
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  #49  
Old 02-08-2021, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
There's a decent possibility that their original white (over OD) was painted while on the cradles. ... Either way, it's not a perfectly rectangular strip like the Estes decal portrays.




That's correct. Forgive me, but I have a photo around here somewhere that shows a tech spray-painting a round while it's resting on the cradle, but I'll be darned if I can find it right now. And to your point, especially if sprayed, it's why the real cradle markings would be fuzzy, and not crisp.
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  #50  
Old 02-08-2021, 12:38 PM
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