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  #11  
Old 03-08-2017, 03:37 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
Dang, senior moment. I took pics of the II at NASM a few years back. It's cool, and definitely would be easier to build stable, but something about the funky 1A just has always appealed to me. I also love the contrast of the black/white striped nose over the olive drab body.
The Pershing 1 (the "1A" referred to the improved overall system, including its transportation vehicles; the missiles themselves were externally unchanged) also flew with attractive black-and-white checkerboard test vehicle decor schemes in its early launches at Launch Complex 30 at the Cape. Some of these rounds had an extended (30" long, if memory serves) cylindrical instrumentation section added between the second stage motor and the bottom of the conical nose section. Also:

I've seen a photograph of an early Pershing II test vehicle that consisted of just the four-finned *first* stage, topped by the four-finned MARV (MAneuverable Re-entry Vehicle). This stubby-looking vehicle (which would also make a fine scale model rocket) was flown at White Sands rather than at Cape Canaveral. My guess is that it was for testing the MARV's precision-impact terminal guidance radar on land targets without flying beyond the WSMR's rather small range boundaries, which the all-up, two-stage Pershing II would have done unless it was launched nearly straight up (which wouldn't have produced a lower-angled, operational-type trajectory, being a high, sounding rocket-type trajectory instead; also, it could have easily escaped the range had it gone awry).
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  #12  
Old 03-10-2017, 11:34 PM
olDave olDave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
I've seen a photograph of an early Pershing II test vehicle that consisted of just the four-finned *first* stage, topped by the four-finned MARV (MAneuverable Re-entry Vehicle).


I believe that "stubby" version of the Pershing was an attempt to salvage a portion of the hardware and field a reduced-range option that would still satisfy one of the new (at the time) strategic/tactical arms treaties. The smaller missile size also allowed two of the mini-Pershes to be carried on one of the transport vehicles.
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  #13  
Old 03-11-2017, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by olDave
I believe that "stubby" version of the Pershing was an attempt to salvage a portion of the hardware and field a reduced-range option that would still satisfy one of the new (at the time) strategic/tactical arms treaties. The smaller missile size also allowed two of the mini-Pershes to be carried on one of the transport vehicles.
That makes sense (in the late 1950s the Army had a rather similar idea for basing a two-stage version [using the upper two stages] of the Minuteman ICBM in sub-ice bases on the Greenland icecap, much closer to the U.S.S.R.; the continuous movement of the ice, which made their experimental icecap base there hard to maintain, persuaded them to drop the idea).
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  #14  
Old 03-11-2017, 12:09 PM
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I have NEVER agreed with policies that result in destruction of paid-for-by-tax-dollars military hardware (such as the Pershing II) in favor of some jackassed 'arms reduction' treaty. The platforms should be civilian re-purposed for scientific research or ANYTHING but destruction of the asset.
This goes DOUBLY for FUNCTIONAL military aircraft that branches decide to de-commission which should be LEFT FUNCTIONAL and auctioned off to the highest bidder (with ZERO restrictions if the bidder is a lawful CITIZEN) even if that is only $1.00
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  #15  
Old 03-11-2017, 07:10 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I have NEVER agreed with policies that result in destruction of paid-for-by-tax-dollars military hardware (such as the Pershing II) in favor of some jackassed 'arms reduction' treaty. The platforms should be civilian re-purposed for scientific research or ANYTHING but destruction of the asset.
This goes DOUBLY for FUNCTIONAL military aircraft that branches decide to de-commission which should be LEFT FUNCTIONAL and auctioned off to the highest bidder (with ZERO restrictions if the bidder is a lawful CITIZEN) even if that is only $1.00
No argument here! The Minotaur series of launch vehicles could never have been created if "treaty-retired" Minuteman and Peacekeeper [MX] ICBM hardware had been scrapped. I understand the treaty negotiators' concerns, but those can satisfied. For example, the Pershing II missiles would have been militarily useless without their specialized support vehicles, which could have been de-militarized and auctioned off for civilian uses. This would have left the missiles' rocket motors, guidance systems, and MARVs (which would have made fine all-weather, precision-landing-point payload housings that could have been equipped with parachutes, when payload recovery was desired) free to be used as Aries-type, guided sounding rockets. (If equipped with one or more small upper stages, the Pershing IIs could also--like the "stretched" Redstones that were used to orbit the earliest Explorer satellites--have served as microsatellite launch vehicles.)
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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