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  #151  
Old 11-25-2005, 01:01 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Exclamation New Plan -- Cherokee Double-J

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle3
If you made a 4" version already I missed it. I like the newer config with two EM L330's sweeeeeeeeet!


If I did, I can't locate it...

So, I came up with a new one...

Specs on this version:

Altitude -- 7600'

Deployment V -- 1.3 FPS, altimeter-triggered recovery [booster still needs a recovery system, but this is do-able]

Motors -- (2) Aerotech J-460 Reloadables

Length -- 92.75"

Span -- 18"

Weight -- 88 oz empty, 146.2 oz loaded

Requires a 48" tower, reaches flight speed at 31"

Stability margin with motors is 5.6

Enjoy!
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  #152  
Old 11-25-2005, 02:00 PM
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Eagle3 Eagle3 is offline
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Coolness Craig, Thanks! This will be a blast to build after I get my L2 out of the way.
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  #153  
Old 11-25-2005, 02:15 PM
Green Dragon Green Dragon is offline
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a cpouple comments,questions on this paper project, lol...

looks VERY doable, in fact if I was 'into' Cherokee-double-D , I;d build it to prove the design, but with all my regular sized clones, plus the 7.67" Goblin and a pair of Black Brant 3's ( 4" and 10.25")... well....

anyways,m the rocksim weights are good, in fact if the ready to fly weight can be done at 20 lbs loaded - which I highly doubt those figures - it sure doesn;t need L330 motors.

My brothers 1:3 scale Nike-Tomahawk ( 5.54" booster / 3" upper ), was 27 lbs loaded and flew perfect on K700 ( Kosdon 1400 nsec, current AMW 1400 would be fine),and that was not only 27 lbs loaded, but more drag than a cherokee would have .

also brings up my last question - why not just design / simulate this with the Loc 5.54" tubing ? ,seems the Loc cone is close looking, or if you're a purist, long 5.54 ogive is made by performance rocketry.

if anyone builds this, I'll keep a close watch :-)

- a couple guys in our club has started on a 5.54" BETA upscale about 15 years back... I remember cutting the fins and rings for them, they had the parts,etc but one guy left the hobby, and the other is not real active now, far as I know, last he flew as LDRS 13....
Beta scale length booster did not leave much room for chutes though......

~ AL
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  #154  
Old 11-25-2005, 02:31 PM
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snaquin snaquin is offline
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I reworked my Loc Big Nuke 3E file using the fin pattern Craig has in his large version, sustainer only. The design includes an adapter that I built for 54mm motors.

I was thinking the same thing about Loc parts although not a perfect upscale, pretty close.

As for some construction tips and a good view of the included parts, this is how I built my built my Big Nuke 3E

Big Nuke 3E EMRR Review

Only things I would recommend if built with Loc parts would be thru-the-wall fins to the motor mount and I prefer 0.25" plywood for the fins instead of G10 for better epoxy bonds. Centering rings and bulkheads 0.25" instead of 0.125" and stiffy tube couplers at all the airframe joints where a coupler is used. I've seen a Loc Magnum buckle and fail with a coupler only at those joints under high thrust HPR motors. Barry at Loc has included the stiffy tube couplers into the kits for that reason.
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  #155  
Old 11-25-2005, 02:51 PM
Green Dragon Green Dragon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaquin
I reworked my Loc Big Nuke 3E file using the fin pattern Craig has in his large version, sustainer only. The design includes an adapter that I built for 54mm motors.

I was thinking the same thing about Loc parts although not a perfect upscale, pretty close.

As for some construction tips and a good view of the included parts, this is how I built my built my Big Nuke 3E

Big Nuke 3E EMRR Review

Only things I would recommend if built with Loc parts would be thru-the-wall fins to the motor mount and I prefer 0.25" plywood for the fins instead of G10 for better epoxy bonds. Centering rings and bulkheads 0.25" instead of 0.125" and stiffy tube couplers at all the airframe joints where a coupler is used. I've seen a Loc Magnum buckle and fail with a coupler only at those joints under high thrust HPR motors. Barry at Loc has included the stiffy tube couplers into the kits for that reason.


Sounds like a Big Nuke or similar could be a starting point, although cheaper to just buy the parts ( have to plug my friend Pat's site at http://www.centeringrings.com/index.htm for best prices on LOC spec tubing )

1/4" plywood is overkill, but thicker is closer to scale, so not a bad choice.

As for the stiffy coupler reccomendation - I agree 110% if it's a bulkhead or similar, had my LOC K-Load fold at the payload / airframe coupler joint.. thought it took a hit tot he electronics and ejected, but video's inconclusive, new version has the stiffy couplers installed.. although L600 might be a little extreme for that bird :-)

thinking about the guys and the Beta upscale has me thinking large 2 stage, biggest I've done myself is the US Rockets Sonic 2200, although my brother had the 1:3 Nike as noted.... not sure a Cherokee, thouhg, but a true upscale 2 stage .... hmmm.....

~ AL
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  #156  
Old 11-25-2005, 07:13 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Dragon
...brings up my last question - why not just design / simulate this with the Loc 5.54" tubing ? ,seems the Loc cone is close looking, or if you're a purist, long 5.54 ogive is made by performance rocketry
~ AL


Al,

I was not really thinking in terms of kitbashing when I started this version. This was really an academic exercise to see what a "true" 4X version would look like and perform like. If I were to rework the design again (and I just might, now that you guys have mentioned the tube diameter is so close), then the LOC tubing would be the tube of choice.

My thoughts were simply "If I were setting up for a kit, I could simply order the tube size that I wanted, and not just accept what someone else already has. The price to order the correct size directly from the manufacturer would be no more, and very likely a lot less, than purchasing the same tubes from a distributor. If I'm ordering from the manufacturer, why not go with the exact size?"

Don't misunderstand -- I'm NOT kitting this beast! But one can dream, right?
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  #157  
Old 11-25-2005, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle3
Coolness Craig, Thanks! This will be a blast to build after I get my L2 out of the way.


Pictures and a build report will be required...
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  #158  
Old 11-25-2005, 07:54 PM
Green Dragon Green Dragon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
Al,

I was not really thinking in terms of kitbashing when I started this version. This was really an academic exercise to see what a "true" 4X version would look like and perform like. If I were to rework the design again (and I just might, now that you guys have mentioned the tube diameter is so close), then the LOC tubing would be the tube of choice.

My thoughts were simply "If I were setting up for a kit, I could simply order the tube size that I wanted, and not just accept what someone else already has. The price to order the correct size directly from the manufacturer would be no more, and very likely a lot less, than purchasing the same tubes from a distributor. If I'm ordering from the manufacturer, why not go with the exact size?"

Don't misunderstand -- I'm NOT kitting this beast! But one can dream, right?


No problem - I understand that for sake of simulating / test-running the design, that the exact scale sizes were used, just thought the difference between 5.3 and 5.54 would not be very significant.
And you're correct on buying the tubes dorect, much less costly, especially in quantity, of course the cone would still be an issue.

Either way it's an interesting concept study, I've seen various Cherokee upscales, so no reason a booster addition would not be feasable -
I'm definately thinking on a large 2 stager now, have to look around and see what designs look nice :-)

~ AL
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  #159  
Old 11-25-2005, 08:03 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Dragon
I'm definately thinking on a large 2 stager now, have to look around and see what designs look nice :-)

~ AL


You know, I was just thinking about doing another monster upscale of something...

Check out the BARCLONE Hawk design and let me know if that appeals to you...
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  #160  
Old 11-25-2005, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
Once again, I would appreciate comments on this beast. I'm trying to learn about HPR construction, so anything you guys with experience can offer will be taken to heart!


The size of your Updated 4X CDD lends itself really well to HPR. With the span diamter of 24" stability sure wouldn't be a problem. I guess my angle on it was viewed from the construction and parts similarities to the Big Nuke as far as the sustainer is concerned. Those similarities being three centering rings with a 75mm motor mount, nose cone 21", diameter, electronics capable.

Although your real intent was a true 4X upscale I found it interesting that the Big Nuke extended with your fin design and a coupler could be built pretty close to your sustainer with currently available components. If I had seen your design before I built that kit it would have certainly have been a consideration to try that approach since the CD was always one of my favorites.

Actually your 4" Cherokee Double-J is the design size I like best.

So when did you say this kit would be available?

just kidding
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