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MarkB. 03-09-2022 10:14 PM

Afternoon Project
 
Druziv:

(Ukrainian for friends or comrades).

So I built a rocket today, a Semroc Cherokee-D. Nothing particularly interesting about it: 3 fins and a nose cone. I tripped over the kit twice while I was cleaning out the computer room and took that as a sign to build it. I was unsupervised today and so I opened the package at noon and by 4:00 it was completely assembled with the fins drying in the jig.

What intrigued me was the time usage. By far, the most time-consuming portion of the build was assembling the parachute. In fact, it wasn't even close. I took an hour to carefully cut out the chute, make sure the adhesive rings lined up and then with my increasingly bad eyes, tying tiny knots in the the lines. Even with progressive lenses, I was just guessing. The chute in this kit was one of those thick plastic, orange and white, 24 inch, Jolly Logic chutes you could buy 100 at a time a few years ago. It has lines to cut for 12", 15", 18" and 24" diameters. I went with 15". I cut the lines of the proper length from the provided spool. When I finally got it all done, I looked up and couldn't believe how long it took.

The other stuff was easy:

motor mount: 10 minutes,
sand the fins: 10 minutes,
mark and line the tube: 5 minutes,
pin hole the lines for glue rivets and pre-glue: maybe 10 minutes,
find the drill and bit to add dowel to the nose cone: 15 minutes
locate fin jig: 15 minutes
everything else was letting the glue dry.

It's been a while since I built a simple kit more-or-less straight from the package. It was fun, but I wouldn't want to do that again for a long time.

Comments?

mojo1986 03-10-2022 05:22 AM

Would like to see pics. The dowel is for a sturdier screw eye attachment?

A Fish Named Wallyum 03-10-2022 06:06 AM

The nice thing about the Cherokee D is that the paint masking is easy. :D I've built A, B, C, D and E so far, some of them multiple times. I have the MicroMaxx one from Semroc waiting for me to decide I can work on something that tiny, and I have the fin pattern drawn up for a BT-70 Cherokee F. Good choice. :cool:

tbzep 03-10-2022 08:09 AM

Druziv,

I've got a late 60's version of one of these that helps for tiny detail. Our school was about to throw it out and I happened to notice it. I use it to find splinters, do fine soldering work, etc. If I need extra magnification for that tiniest sliver of invisible metal sitting right on a nerve in my finger, I wear some readers underneath. It along with a nice work light make quick work of tiny tasks and might help with your fine knot work.


tbzep 03-10-2022 08:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
The nice thing about the Cherokee D is that the paint masking is easy. :D I've built A, B, C, D and E so far, some of them multiple times. I have the MicroMaxx one from Semroc waiting for me to decide I can work on something that tiny, and I have the fin pattern drawn up for a BT-70 Cherokee F. Good choice. :cool:

The Cherokee is one of my favorites. I personally like the short bodied version. You're right, a white base coat and a couple shots of red on the NC and she's ready for decals. My cousin's was the first D powered bird I ever saw and a 2" upscale Cherokee was my first 29mm bird. I used to love to fly it on F100 Silver Streaks.

ghrocketman 03-10-2022 12:01 PM

Any chute larger than a 12" on a Cherokee-D when powered with a D or larger and you have a 90% chance of losing it to massive drift in ANY wind.
I fly mine on C's with any chute and a nice long double streamer if with a D.

I have built more Cherokee D's than any other kit.
Not because it is my favorite, but because I like having one in the fleet and have lost a TON of them.

Scott6060842 03-10-2022 12:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I always liked the picture from the '73 Estes catalog .... the Mighty' D'

A Fish Named Wallyum 03-10-2022 08:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Any chute larger than a 12" on a Cherokee-D when powered with a D or larger and you have a 90% chance of losing it to massive drift in ANY wind.
I fly mine on C's with any chute and a nice long double streamer if with a D.

I have built more Cherokee D's than any other kit.
Not because it is my favorite, but because I like having one in the fleet and have lost a TON of them.

My first Cherokee D back in 2001 was the victim of a D12 CATO, I think my very first one. It completely blew the motor mount out of the body tube, but aside from some soot, left the body tube in great shape. I immediately replaced the D mount with an E mount and flew it with a full 18" parachute.
Once. :eek:
I still remember watching it float out of VOA. I felt like Henry Blake watching his antique desk head to Tokyo on the helicopter. :D

ghrocketman 03-10-2022 10:57 PM

My first Cherokee-D was built and LOST within 2 weeks time in 1978 on a D12-7 and that idiotic 18" chute.
The only D engine that I regularly got them back on with a 12" chute was the D11-9.

A Fish Named Wallyum 03-11-2022 06:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
The Cherokee is one of my favorites. I personally like the short bodied version. You're right, a white base coat and a couple shots of red on the NC and she's ready for decals. My cousin's was the first D powered bird I ever saw and a 2" upscale Cherokee was my first 29mm bird. I used to love to fly it on F100 Silver Streaks.

I never built the short bodied Cherokee. Might have to rectify that this spring. :cool:

A Fish Named Wallyum 03-11-2022 06:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott6060842
I always liked the picture from the '73 Estes catalog .... the Mighty' D'

:cool: I couldn't even imagine. I thought the C6-5 was the be-all and end-all of high power. :D

Blushingmule 03-11-2022 09:37 AM

[QUOTE=. I immediately replaced the D mount with an E mount and flew it with a full 18" parachute. Once. :eek:
I still remember watching it float out of VOA. I felt like Henry Blake watching his antique desk head to Tokyo on the helicopter. :D[/QUOTE]

Bill,
Hah hah! That is a classic episode. :cool:

Bob

A Fish Named Wallyum 03-11-2022 11:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blushingmule
Bill,
Hah hah! That is a classic episode. :cool:

Bob

Few I enjoyed more. I did like the one where the latrine blew up with Henry inside.

Blushingmule 03-11-2022 12:41 PM

Klinger...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
Few I enjoyed more. I did like the one where the latrine blew up with Henry inside.


"Boom!"

Another is Klinger in full fem regalia and M-1 telling the General before he about faces

and skips away - "Then I'll just have to keep trying Mary". So funny!

Bob

tbzep 03-11-2022 01:23 PM

There were tons of great scenes in the show. In addition to what's been mentioned, a couple that come to mind are when Klinger was pole sitting for his section 8 and Potter made him stay up there to set a record. Anytime Radar was near scantily clad women was funny, probably the best was when he had to go into the shower to get Margaret (or maybe all the nurses, I can't remember for sure). I also liked the episode where he mailed home a Jeep.

That was one of those shows where every time I watched an episode that I'd already seen, I caught something I missed before. I usually can't stand to watch reruns. They bore me. However MASH is one of a handful I could watch over and over.

LeeR 03-11-2022 01:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
My first Cherokee-D was built and LOST within 2 weeks time in 1978 on a D12-7 and that idiotic 18" chute.
The only D engine that I regularly got them back on with a 12" chute was the D11-9.


My first flight of a Cherokee-D was a D12-5 and 18” chute. I did get it back, after a 45 minute walk. At the old CRASH launch site in Denver, the field is bordered WAY to the east, where a monstrous pile of rock (mini boulders) cover the slope. Fortunately it hit the slope, instead of going past the dam. No climbing allowed, and I probably would not do it anyway. I walked the road to get to the top, then along the dam (d@mn?) road, and carefully climbed down the rock face a bit to reach it.

I switched to a 12” chute after that! The only worse combination was the Astron Drifter on the supplied 24” chute. (Given the choice of 24” or the 12” chute also in the kit, what kid wouldn’t use the 24” chute?) :)
That was my 2nd rocket as a kid, and it just climbed and climbed after chute deployment, never to be seen again. Heartbreaking!

TigerHawk 03-11-2022 02:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
My first flight of a Cherokee-D was a D12-5 and 18” chute. I did get it back, after a 45 minute walk. At the old CRASH launch site in Denver, the field is bordered WAY to the east, where a monstrous pile of rock (mini boulders) cover the slope. Fortunately it hit the slope, instead of going past the dam. No climbing allowed, and I probably would not do it anyway. I walked the road to get to the top, then along the dam (d@mn?) road, and carefully climbed down the rock face a bit to reach it.

I switched to a 12” chute after that! The only worse combination was the Astron Drifter on the supplied 24” chute. (Given the choice of 24” or the 12” chute also in the kit, what kid wouldn’t use the 24” chute?) :)
That was my 2nd rocket as a kid, and it just climbed and climbed after chute deployment, never to be seen again. Heartbreaking!


Did you take any dam pictures :chuckle:

tbzep 03-11-2022 03:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerHawk
Did you take any dam pictures :chuckle:


Ok, Bevis. :p


.

LeeR 03-11-2022 06:05 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerHawk
Did you take any dam pictures :chuckle:



As a matter of fact, I did. Thanks so much for asking!

Here I am, on top of the dam, looking down upon the rocks, with the launch site in the distance.

This is the famous launch site at Bear Creek Lake State Park, Morrison Colorado. Famous Red Rocks Amphitheater is in the hills about 5 miles away (more north, that shot is aiming southwest.) The city bureaucrats (Lakewood) decided that rockets create too much noise, despite maybe 30 years of CRASH flying there, and probably no complaints. This launch site out in the middle of nowhere in that park.

Too much info? :p

TigerHawk 03-11-2022 07:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
As a matter of fact, I did. Thanks so much for asking!

Here I am, on top of the dam, looking down upon the rocks, with the launch site in the distance.

This is the famous launch site at Bear Creek Lake State Park, Morrison Colorado. Famous Red Rocks Amphitheater is in the hills about 5 miles away (more north, that shot is aiming southwest.) The city bureaucrats (Lakewood) decided that rockets create too much noise, despite maybe 30 years of CRASH flying there, and probably no complaints. This launch site out in the middle of nowhere in that park.

Too much info? :p


Dyn-o-mite :chuckle:

ghrocketman 03-12-2022 01:44 AM

I liked the MASH episode where Klinger attempted to eat a JEEP.

I think it was Dick O'Neill that played an Admiral that stated "Nuts, Bolts, Screws ?!? This man is full of machinery ! ".... After reviewing his goofball X-ray.

PaulK 03-12-2022 09:31 AM

Funny story MarkB. Why wouldn't you want to do it again for a long time? Kits not your thing?

Do you plan to fly it with the chute? I now use streamers in my Cherokee-D builds, except for upscales, since they're flown exclusively on D12 motors. Streamers take a *lot* less time to make, and they're much less likely to drift away.

I've built 7 Cherokee-D's, including a couple upscales, and have lost most of them. Lost my first one as a kid, on a D12-7 with the supplied 18" chute, on it's maiden flight. Built a second, didn't launch it until I became a BAR, circa 2005, and promptly lost it. Built & flew a Thrustline clone quite a few times, then started cloning my own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
Druziv,

I've got a late 60's version of one of these that helps for tiny detail. Our school was about to throw it out and I happened to notice it. I use it to find splinters, do fine soldering work, etc. If I need extra magnification for that tiniest sliver of invisible metal sitting right on a nerve in my finger, I wear some readers underneath. It along with a nice work light make quick work of tiny tasks and might help with your fine knot work.
I have 2 different magnifications of the Donegan Opti-Visor, 1.75x, and 2.5x, use them all the time, as my eyesight is horrible (~ 11 diopters of nearsighted correction). They're still made with glass lenses, though do now offer a cheaper plastic lens version.

MarkB. 03-16-2022 01:33 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Druziv:

So a picture was requested. Here you go.

But I thought the group would like to see the other artifact: From an eBay rescue group I got last year: a short body, two-piece fin, balsa nose, stand-off lug, Cherokee-D now in the restoration pile. No chute, no shock cord but it will fly again. I enjoy deep-diving the old posts on this site and there is a surprising amount of data on Cherokee-Ds which I confess to never having given much thought. I was reading through them and then I remembered I had this out in the pile and sure enough . . . . So apparently, this is a very rare beastie to have survived over 50 years.

The new build is coming along. I'll seal the fins over the next few days and then it's ready for paint.

ghrocketman 03-16-2022 07:00 PM

I have built at least 7 Estes Cherokee-D kits, all with the full-length BT-55 and PNC55AC cone.
Never built a short-tube Estes early kit.
The only short -tube kit I built was a PDR or Thrustline clone.
Did the early Estes kit use a balsa BNC55AC cone ?

LeeR 03-16-2022 08:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
The nice thing about the Cherokee D is that the paint masking is easy. :D I've built A, B, C, D and E so far, some of them multiple times. I have the MicroMaxx one from Semroc waiting for me to decide I can work on something that tiny, and I have the fin pattern drawn up for a BT-70 Cherokee F. Good choice. :cool:


I’d get going on that MicroMaxx Cherokee pretty soon. If you wait until your my age, working with those tiny parts is close to impossible.

mwtoelle 03-16-2022 11:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I have built at least 7 Estes Cherokee-D kits, all with the full-length BT-55 and PNC55AC cone.
Never built a short-tube Estes early kit.
The only short -tube kit I built was a PDR or Thrustline clone.
Did the early Estes kit use a balsa BNC55AC cone ?

I think that Cherokee-D switched to plastic nose cone sometime in late 1974 or during 1975.

A Fish Named Wallyum 03-17-2022 09:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
I’d get going on that MicroMaxx Cherokee pretty soon. If you wait until your my age, working with those tiny parts is close to impossible.

Oh, I'm WAY more advanced than you are. Those parts have been impossible for me for over 20 years now. :D :rolleyes:

A Fish Named Wallyum 03-17-2022 09:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB.
Druziv:

So a picture was requested. Here you go.

But I thought the group would like to see the other artifact: From an eBay rescue group I got last year: a short body, two-piece fin, balsa nose, stand-off lug, Cherokee-D now in the restoration pile. No chute, no shock cord but it will fly again. I enjoy deep-diving the old posts on this site and there is a surprising amount of data on Cherokee-Ds which I confess to never having given much thought. I was reading through them and then I remembered I had this out in the pile and sure enough . . . . So apparently, this is a very rare beastie to have survived over 50 years.

The new build is coming along. I'll seal the fins over the next few days and then it's ready for paint.

Very cool. I'm bummed that the number of worthwhile eBay lots has dropped off precipitously in the past couple of years. This is a great find. :cool:

tbzep 03-17-2022 10:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Did the early Estes kit use a balsa BNC55AC cone ?

Yes. It started its life as an ARCAS balsa nose cone.

MarkB. 06-07-2022 07:46 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Druziv:

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, helps the outgassing like 104 degrees in the shade with 20% relative humidity. Three on the paint sticks drying this afternoon. My Cherokee-D with the alternate black nose, the school project Aerobee finally getting a "real" paint job after 50+ launches and five or six years of launching and an eBay rescue Bandit that I'll post more about in the Rescue thread after I get the decals on.

It is definitely sunny outside.

MarkB. 06-30-2022 08:23 AM

So,

OCD can be a bad thing. I wanted to put the Center of Pressure decal and the Center of Gravity decal in the correct locations. I found both a D12-7 and a C11-5 for use in the CG measurement

Using the Bruce Lee worksheets Dave posted in another thread, I calculated the CP of my Semroc Cherokee-D as 17.18" from the tip of the nose. With a D12-7, the CG is only .875" ahead of that and with the C11-5, 1.625" ahead.

The Semroc kit is short body (16.35") like the original and I added a hardwood dowel to the nose cone to give the screw eye something to bite into. Still need a bit more nose weight.

If anybody wants to check my math, great. I'd note that using an 18" body tube moves the CP slightly forward (1.46") but this is offset by the CG having a longer moment arm.



Addendum: For fun, I measured the CG on the old Estes Cherokee I mentioned above with the same D12-7 and I don't know if the paint is heavier or the balsa cone denser, but its CG is 1.375" ahead of the CP. So it's OK.

MarkB. 07-04-2022 09:40 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Well,

Here's the finished product. Total time decalling ended up being just over an hour mostly because of trying to do a good job cutting close to the images and lining everything up. I did it in two sessions about 45 minutes for the fins and the other bottom end decals and about 20 minutes for the wraps and the CG/CP markings.

The Semroc decals were, as usual, a little translucent, but they went on well. I used a little Walther's Solvaset decal solution. A coat of Tree House Acrylic Clear and this one's ready to go.

I was going for the original 1970 catalog look. Pic. 1 is the right side. The CG/CP decals are in their correct locations for a D12-7. It took a couple of weights under the screw eye to get that all sorted out.

Pic 2 is the other side. The decal layout seems to suggest a rocket in a cradle so the other two sides of the rocket are pretty plain. Also, I noticed that, in addition to not following that general visual layout, the "NASA" on the sheet was in two different font sizes, an error which apparently cares over from the original Estes sheet. So I cut them off and used the larger of the two to make the bottom end decal you see here. The larger NASA plus the decal sheet part number and the small numerals provided on the decal sheet make up a new marking for the bottom of this side. I used my NAR number. Lining up the individual number decals was, shall we say, challenging. The CP/CG markings on this side are farther apart as those are the measurements for a C11-5.

Pic 3 is a close up. The Semroc kit number is KV-84 whereas the Estes kit number K-47. The number on the Semroc decal sheet reflects this difference on the United States decal as well.

A fun project that came out well. Now I'm debating refinishing the eBay rescue Cherokee, but I definitely need an Estes decal sheet.

John Brohm 07-04-2022 10:00 AM

Nicely done!


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