White Lightning Q-Jets
 

Developmental static test today of a new 18mm diameter C15-8W Q-Jet™ motor. We announced the White Lightning™ Q-Jets at NARCON in Tucson in early March. This motor will be as close to 10.0 N-sec total impulse as possible. A 'D'-impulse version (a D20W) in the same 18mm casing has also been tested at ~14 N-sec. Final delay tests and submittal for certification will be completed soon!
https://www.facebook.com/flyaerotec...83279052835086/

Are there any plans for longer casing versions for full D and mid E motors? Thanks. Congrats.

On a related note does AT have a slower burning propellant that would provide similar or slightly lower average thrust levels in extended motors and incidentally allow similar throats to be used?

We're not yet ready to discuss plans for products not already announced.

Yes to the second question.

Sounds interesting.
New 18mm SU choices are always a good thing.

This is very interesting. I REALLY like the existing C12s but having more choices is a good thing, as GH just noted.

I can think of a bunch of models that would work great on a projected C15-6W.

Turns out that some customers apparently do not care much for the Black Max propellant exhaust effects. The White Lightning exhaust should be at least as exciting as black powder.

The motors will weigh slightly less, since WL has a higher Isp and lower density.

I'm OK with the smoky exhaust (I also like CTI Smoky Sams). But it does get GSE dirty.

And for the C12s in particular, the extra performance over an Estes C6, especially for, but not limited to, heavier models is very satisfying and certainly seems to be more than one would expect from going from 8.8 N-s (Estes C6) to 9.8 N-s (Q-Jet C12).

On the other hand, White Lightning has a reputation for being difficult to light and for that to get worse as is it ages. Is this formulation of White Lightning more resistant to this? This is why I had mixed feelings when I heard about White Lightning Q-Jets.

I know I have personally been more frustrated getting the SU D10s lit than just about any other composite I have flown.

This WL variant is easier to ignite, very similar to Black Max.

Thanks for the posts to this thread Gary. Your positive responses to my inquiry are quite promising for "unannounced products".

Sounds good. I look forward to giving some of these Q-Jet-Ws a try when then are available.

The 18 x 70mm WL Q-jets were announced at NARCON-2020.

yep, I coulda tol' ya that!

NARCON 2021 18 x 88mm SWL Q-Jets Full 20 N-s D, and a cheater E. :D

There I helped with the Press Release 2021.

It would be long enough for a fairly cool slow green . . . . SMG

This is really great news. I do like the current fast blackjack q-jets a lot. I think they are a a great alternative to black powder, and the way they fill gaps in what is a available for black powder is great, I like the sound and exhaust, and ignitability is great.

I prefer ALL OTHER Aerotech propellants over Blackjack and Fast Jack.
Not a big fan of the black exhaust.
I like Mohave Green best, closely followed by Blue Thunder which is about the closest to original Enerjet composites.

Any chance of getting Mohave Green in 18mm SU/RMS or 24mm SU/RMS ?

The green color in an 18mm motor would likely be washed out and nearly invisible. Plus I do not believe they would be covered under any of our existing DOT approvals.

I also love the progressive thrust curve of the Cs and Ds which again fills a niche.

I was going to ask if these White Lightning Q-Jets would have a progressive thrust curve as well....

They do.

Progressive curves in model rockets of this class is a feature not a bug.

Gary-
Thanks for the explanation about Mohave Green not being sensible for 18mm.

Gary, here is a version 1 A3 (Original release) on the left and the revised A3, that has the case diameter nudged down. Note the difference in nozzle size which surprised me, later version being larger. Can you share what the design thinking was on this change?

The exit cone is surprisingly short so is under expanded. They might be slightly better off by increasing the expansion angle to >30 degrees, perhaps 45 degrees. Heck, make it a curved shape since it is SU ceramic!

I don’t think the throat on those has been changed, it may have used an older version of the tool or there could be a bit of ceramic “flashing” in the throat.

The nozzle expansion ratio is actually pretty close to optimum for the motor operating pressure, which is low by typical composite propellant model rocket motor standards.

Update
 

To update our progress on this project, we tested the delays for the C and D White Lightning Q-jets today and they were all within spec, with no failures or anomalies. The next step is to build the motors for certification and submit to the testing organization.

Awesome! That is great news. Is the White the same that is used in the F44?

No, it's the fast white that was used in the old G80FWL. These small motors need a relatively high mass flow rate to work with the minimum nozzle throat size of 0.090", so the igniter can be inserted.

Oooh thanks, I loved that G80FWL, still have one from Magnum, and an E30FWL also. These should be great, the flame in the test video looks great.

The only downside to these small motors is that the burn time is relatively short, like 0.7 seconds. Looking on the positive side they have great lifting capability!

I remember those G80FWL. I think you could buy ten from Ross at Magnum for $100 or something like that. Excellent motors! :D

Can’t wait to try a few out Gary. Thanks for the update.

Gary,
Any chance you will be making the G80-4 again?
I love that motor!

Allen

Can’t wait to see what the thrust curves look like.

Oh, yeah... I’ll have to go digging to see if I can find the 2 or 3 I have stashed in this mess .

As you may remember, we dropped that delay in 2007 when the G80 was redesigned to produce 137 N-sec, which was a 42% increase in total impulse over the previous design. Because of the increased total impulse, heavier model rockets using the 4 second delay should now use the longer 7 second delay. I suppose a 4-second delay could be useful for high power rockets weighing 4 or 5 pounds, but we would not want to see them used in kits like the G-Force or Sumo.

I have several fairly heavy NCR rockets, but love my Bomarc. If I used a 7 second delay, it would hit the ground before the charge went off. I like SU motors; not a fan of RMS. The G80-4 was perfect.

Allen

There is a DMS G80T-14A that you can drill the delay but the DMS drilling tool is set up to take 8 sec off at the most, you could use a regular bit with a drill stop or a tape stop if you wanted to get to 4 or 5 seconds.

I think it is great that manufacturers are developing/producing more motors in the traditional 18mm x 70mm size. :)

I can't wait to try out these new Quest motors.

What I would like to see are some longer burn motors and a method of reliably staging small APCP propellant motors.

Longer burn 18mm composites are going to difficult because of the smaller throat size needed. You just can’t get an initiator in anything much smaller than a 0.090” diameter nozzle throat.

We have found that you can stage a C-size black powder booster motor to a C or D Q-Jet.