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-   -   Mark II how important are you?? (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=2903)

shockwaveriderz 03-07-2008 04:20 PM

Some historical notes on the Mark 2.

Carlisle had another version of the Mark 2 called the Mark2.5.
G. Harry Stine in April 1959 published pland for his "Lil Mark" which was a kitbash of the MMi Aerobee-Hi kit and an Adams plastic Honest John nose cone. It had the Mark 2 like fins template. This Lil Mark went on to become the Astron Mark Estes kit K-2.

I can't find any evidence that Orv Carlisle actually ever sold any Mark 2's as kits other than he send 3 pre-build RTF Mark 2's and 3 "kits" to G. Harry Stine. Once the Carlisle-Stine letters are published, we may know of other Mark 2 "kits" that he either gave or sold to G. Harry Stine.


hth

terry dean
nar 16158

Tedster 03-08-2008 11:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegrass Rocket
I also have a crayon sharpener in the original package. This pertains to Ted Mahler's excellent article. The sharpener Ted got had "Rocket Crayon Sharpener" printed on it as well as saying "Patented". The one I have says "Pat. Pending" which I believe to be a earlier one. This leads me to believe that the Leeds Sweete company found out what Orville was doing with their sharpener and started printing "Rocket" on it.

Ted, if you read this, I was trying to get the info that you received from Quest but, Matt no longer works there and since they moved Nettie said she wasn't sure when they might be able to help. Nettie asked me if I had contacted you. So, any chance I could get some of the info that you received?


I will gather it up!!! I am still waiting on a description.
I don"t see the History Section of Quest happing soon. That is why I was looking here!

Ted

Tedster 03-10-2008 10:37 PM

So I am seeing two things here:

1. That the Mark II was a kit sold to the public or,,,,,
2. That the Mark II was an inside kit, given only to G.H.S.

I see lots (what looks like a lot) in the article that sells rocketry to the public.

shockwaveriderz 03-12-2008 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedster
So I am seeing two things here:

1. That the Mark II was a kit sold to the public or,,,,,
2. That the Mark II was an inside kit, given only to G.H.S.

I see lots (what looks like a lot) in the article that sells rocketry to the public.


huh?

terry dean
nar 16158

Tedster 03-14-2008 08:05 AM

Does anyone have a photo of the hardwood engine mount used on the Mark II? How about the bottom of a nose cone?

shockwaveriderz 03-14-2008 01:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedster
Does anyone have a photo of the hardwood engine mount used on the Mark II? How about the bottom of a nose cone?


Ted:

I can't help you much with the bottom of the nose cone, but if you look at the Carlisle patent it shows a view of the engine mount. If my memory serves me correctly, in the Carlisle mMArk 1 the motor mount was made from metal and the drawing seems to support the case for an "doughnut hole" type of motor mount where the motor is more or less pressed and squeezed into place in the donut hole itself. I would make a SWAG that Orvillse kept this motor mount for his Mark 2 and just used hardwood instead of metal.

You have to remember that intially the Mark 1 and Mark 2 only used Carlisle hand made motors from his arbor press. He didn't use a metal sleeve surrounding the motor so under pressure the paper casing would "bulge" out slightly. Vern estes when he was doing his iinitial motor testing on his pre-Mabel hydraulic press, which allowed Vern much higher press presures than Carlisles hand operated arbor press, also discovered the tendency of the paper casing to bulge under pressure, and he solved it by using a metal sleeve round the paper caisng, thus containing any tendency to bulge.

I have a Sept 1958 Aerobee-Hi build artcile and there is no mention on how the motor is retained within the model.

In a "build" article from Jan 1960 on the MMI Arcon , it states "In the original kit, a plastic "COLLAR" (My emphasis) is cemented inside the rocket body, against which the solid-propellant engine is fitted". On the 1st firing, the motor ejected instead of the nose cone being fired free. Checking with the manufacturer we (were instructed) to slip a rubber band around the motor and it then stayed in the rocket body and fired off the nose cone so the parachute came free and lowered the unti to the earth. Rubber bands are now used instead of the plastic collar. "

The way I interpret the above was that they used a simple plastic colarr or ring to friction fit the motors into. This obviously is not a real good solution, so they used a simple rubber band to provide a even better friction fit. I guess they had not invented the use of masking tape yet.

I'm sure there are some people reading this that probably have an unbuilt MMI Aerobee-Hi or Arcon stashed away that they could look at and provide pics of the collars or motor mounts used. Or perhaps paper instructions in the kit?

hth

ted: pm me offline ?

terry dean
nar 16158

Mark II 03-15-2008 01:36 AM

Photos of the Carlisle Rock-A-Chute Mark I and Mark II models can be found accompanying GH Stine's article in the May, 1970 issue of Model Rocketry.

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/ModelRocketry/Model_Rocketry_v02n08_05-70.pdf

Mark

Tedster 03-15-2008 12:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shockwaveriderz
Ted:

I can't help you much with the bottom of the nose cone, but if you look at the Carlisle patent it shows a view of the engine mount. ....

terry dean
nar 16158


I looked at the patent and sure enough, it shows a cross section of the engine mount. I will try for a friction fit. Still wish I had a photo of the rear end of a Mark II. I think that one that Bill S. has was one of the original ones built by O.C. !!!!

Ted

Tedster 03-15-2008 12:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
Photos of the Carlisle Rock-A-Chute Mark I and Mark II models can be found accompanying GH Stine's article in the May, 1970 issue of Model Rocketry.

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/ModelRocketry/Model_Rocketry_v02n08_05-70.pdf

Mark


No photo of the engine mount,,,,,rats!

Tedster 03-19-2008 10:49 PM

So what does the launcher for the Mark II look like? O.C. used a variable angle dowel. I have seen some low res pictures of the launcher, anyone have a good drawing or photo of the O.C. launcher? Heck, I'll take low res!


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