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-   -   Estes Ranger and Big Bertha (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=10221)

JAL3 11-13-2011 02:22 PM

Estes Ranger and Big Bertha
 
Would I be correct to assert that the Ranger is just a Bertha with a cluster mount?

tbzep 11-13-2011 02:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAL3
Would I be correct to assert that the Ranger is just a Bertha with a cluster mount?


Just the opposite. The Ranger came first, when Estes only made A and B motors. Vern then designed the single mount Bertha. Also, the Ranger has a payload section and the Bertha doesn't.

JAL3 11-13-2011 02:38 PM

From what I can tell in the catalog pics, the size was the same and the fin profiles look the same. Could I say that they are the same outside but with different innards?

JAL3 11-13-2011 02:46 PM

Also, the 1986 version of the Ranger (1955) looks similar but different from the original. It is a bit shorter and has a single motor mount. Would you still consider them part of the same "family"?

Ltvscout 11-13-2011 03:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAL3
Also, the 1986 version of the Ranger (1955) looks similar but different from the original. It is a bit shorter and has a single motor mount. Would you still consider them part of the same "family"?

This Ranger is a completely different kit. It used the nosecone made for the sport-scale Exocet if I'm not mistaken. Estes often reuses kit names.

tbzep 11-13-2011 03:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAL3
From what I can tell in the catalog pics, the size was the same and the fin profiles look the same. Could I say that they are the same outside but with different innards?

IIRC, over the years the fin pattern has changed slightly along the Ranger/Bertha line, but not enough to notice without putting them together.

The 1955 Ranger had a smaller BT-55 body tube, different shaped fins, and a different nose cone along with the single 24mm mount. I personally wouldn't include it in the family, but others might.

mwtoelle 11-13-2011 04:13 PM

Another note: the Big Bertha first appeared as one of Estes' free plans (EIRP #13).
Link: http://www.spacemodeling.org/JimZ/eirp_13.htm

JAL3 11-13-2011 04:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltvscout
This Ranger is a completely different kit. It used the nosecone made for the sport-scale Exocet if I'm not mistaken. Estes often reuses kit names.


I'm glad when somebody knowledgable confirms my gut feel, except that it tends to lead me to think I am much more competent than I really am...

Thanks.

JAL3 11-13-2011 04:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
IIRC, over the years the fin pattern has changed slightly along the Ranger/Bertha line, but not enough to notice without putting them together.

The 1955 Ranger had a smaller BT-55 body tube, different shaped fins, and a different nose cone along with the single 24mm mount. I personally wouldn't include it in the family, but others might.



Let me see if I can acurately summarize your considered opinion.

1. The original Ranger can be said to be part of the same family as the Big Bertha

2. The 1955 Ranger is at best, a distant relation and the family would do well not to claim it


If by family I am including Big Bertha, Super Big Bertha, Mini Bertha and Baby Bertha, The original Ranger would probably belong in the group but the newer one probably not.


Does that make sense?

JAL3 11-13-2011 04:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwtoelle
Another note: the Big Bertha first appeared as one of Estes' free plans (EIRP #13).
Link: http://www.spacemodeling.org/JimZ/eirp_13.htm



Now that tidbit is VERY appreciated.

I would call it the farthest back ancestor.


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