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-   -   First Motors (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=1565)

Chas Russell 03-17-2007 05:36 PM

First Motors
 
Okay, sports fans:

Let us say that we are building the Krelvenator (sic) motor machine.

Estes makes motors.

Quest provides motors.

What would you like SEMROC to provide first?

The basic A through E Questest clones?

Shorts? 13mm? Even smaller?

18mm, but some oldies and goodies like the A5-x and B14-x?

Not looking for specific motors, but rather what the group thinks would sell. After all, there is a profit motive involved.

Chas

Ltvscout 03-17-2007 06:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas Russell
What would you like SEMROC to provide first?

The basic A through E Questest clones?

Shorts? 13mm? Even smaller?

18mm, but some oldies and goodies like the A5-x and B14-x?

Not looking for specific motors, but rather what the group thinks would sell. After all, there is a profit motive involved.

I would first offer motors that are not currently available from other vendors. A motor that almost everyone that flew rockets in the 60's and 70's wish they still had available today, the mighty B14!!!!

There are others as well such as the A5's, low impulse booster motors for the second stage of three stage rockets such as 1/2A6-0 and A8-0, and 13mm B motors.

I feel these would sell well since no one else makes them currently. Then when people see the quality of the Semroc motors (i.e. good tracking smoke, accurate delays and ejection charges that are just right) they'll then be eager to buy common size motors from Semroc.

18mm shorties would be nice to have, but profit-wise would not be as big of a seller as those listed above. Those would be something to add down the road after the Semroc motor line is established in the hobby.

Doug Sams 03-17-2007 06:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas Russell
What would you like SEMROC to provide first?
While this is basically a repeat of an earlier thread, I'll gladly repeat myself :)

I say to go for the gaps, do the motors we can't already get. A boosters, preferably high thrust ala an A10-like motor (but better) versus low thrust of an A3. Also, a 1/2A booster, again in a high thrust variant. If they're both done in a T form factor, they can be easily adapted to S and standard 18mm applications, so the NRE is optimized.

B14's and high thrust C's. I think Carl said he could do something like a ~C16 in the standard 18mm size. After that, fast burn 24's such as a D20 or D30 (if possible) as well as an E30 or higher (if possible).

Heck, I'd like to see even larger - F's, G's and H's, but they'd all be high power, due to the propellant mass, and from a business perspective, that'd be a whole lot of extra red tape for everyone to deal with, probably not a hurdle a new business needs.

Doug

Chas Russell 03-17-2007 07:49 PM

Dougie reiterrated:

"While this is basically a repeat of an earlier thread, I'll gladly repeat myself..."

The reason I posed this question is that SEMROC could start to make motors that resemble or equal or surpass current motors. As it is, they are not nation-wide in hobby shops or big box stores, so they have to make a product that stands out and is commercially available and available through mail-order. This is another hoop to jump through.

I am only attempting to spur the discussion and develop a rational first step. The STVD group is advisory group and we can have a wish list several klicks long. But, in a business model what does the hobby/industry need that will make sense?

I am all for the B14's. Some of us would like the short motors to actually fly some old models/clones like they were designed to be flown.

The hard earned dollars that we send to SEMROC can only result in a few new projects. I am sure they will surprise us.

Chas

Doug Sams 03-17-2007 08:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas Russell
Some of us would like the short motors to actually fly some old models/clones like they were designed to be flown.
Chas and Everyone,

Y'all tell me if I'm missing something. Is there a reluctance to using adaptpers - be they single use or reusable - in conjunction with T motors to make shorties and standard size motors?

For me it's no big deal. I have a 5 gallon bucket of spent motor cases, so it only takes me a few minutes to turn a T into something else. I even cut slots in some spent cases so motor hooks could be added making them re-usable adapters. They were sealed on the ends so that tape could be added for staging (without delaminating the paper when the tape was removed).

So I see the T as being a universal motor case from 1/4A thru A for all T, S and standard uses. What say everyone else?

Doug

SEL 03-17-2007 08:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltvscout
I would first offer motors that are not currently available from other vendors. A motor that almost everyone that flew rockets in the 60's and 70's wish they still had available today, the mighty B14!!!!

There are others as well such as the A5's, low impulse booster motors for the second stage of three stage rockets such as 1/2A6-0 and A8-0, and 13mm B motors.

I feel these would sell well since no one else makes them currently. Then when people see the quality of the Semroc motors (i.e. good tracking smoke, accurate delays and ejection charges that are just right) they'll then be eager to buy common size motors from Semroc.

18mm shorties would be nice to have, but profit-wise would not be as big of a seller as those listed above. Those would be something to add down the road after the Semroc motor line is established in the hobby.


I agree - fill in with high impulse and bootsers that are no longer available, as well as maybe some longer burn 18mm's. And shorties.

Sean

SEL 03-17-2007 08:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEL
I agree - fill in with high impulse and bootsers that are no longer available, as well as maybe some longer burn 18mm's. And shorties.

Sean


I meant *boosters*, although if you think about it......

Sean

Chas Russell 03-17-2007 09:09 PM

Dougie opines:

"Y'all tell me if I'm missing something. Is there a reluctance to using adaptpers - be they single use or reusable - in conjunction with T motors to make shorties and standard size motors?"

Dougie Daddy,

This thread wasn't meant to be about us. What should SEMROC offer to the (unwashed) masses who wouldn't know an adapter from an acorn? My range box has a plethora of adapters. I made a stand for RRR's new P-Chuter Xtreme at NARCON from parts in my range box!
We have to think of the masses first and us as an auxillary. In my humble opinion. If SEMROC can not get a foot in the door with the hobby shop/mail order customer, the market might not be large enough to supply the goodies we desire.

After all, this is all wishful thinking...

Chas

Pyro Pro 03-17-2007 11:54 PM

I agree with filling in some of the gaps left by the other manufacturers. Also, some long-burn/short-burn specialty motors would be nice, for altitude/heavy lifting projects. They'd also do well in parallel staged designs... :cool: :D <back to designing...>

foose4string 03-18-2007 10:44 PM

I would start by filling some of the current gaps. The best place to begin that, is by re-releasing the stuff that Estes dropped but everyone seems to be craving now. A5, B14, C5, boosters, etc. Eventually, I'd love to see Semroc go head to head with the big boys though and offer the standard stuff. If better effects can be added(which has already been talked about) to make them more appealing than the Estes motors, then I don't think they'd have problems selling.


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