Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Ye Olde Rocket Forum (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/index.php)
-   Scale & Sport Scale Rocketry (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=35)
-   -   Pershing I vs. Pershing II ... which was the best!? (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=9298)

Cohetero-negro 05-24-2011 09:09 AM

Pershing I vs. Pershing II ... which was the best!?
 
Simple poll, you decide which was the better!


J





Weight 4,655 kilograms (10,263 lb)
Length 10.5 metres (34.4 ft)
Diameter 1.02 metres (3.3 ft)
Blast yield W50 nuclear warhead
60 kilotons of TNT (0.25 PJ)
200 kilotons of TNT (0.84 PJ)
400 kilotons of TNT (1.7 PJ)

Engine First stage: Thiokol TX TX-174
115 kN (25,900 lbf) 38.3 s
Second stage: Thiokol TX-175
85 kN (19,100 lbf) 39 s
Operational
range 740 kilometres (460 mi)
Boost time 77.3 seconds
Speed Mach 8
Guidance
system Eclipse-Pioneer ST-120 inertial guidance
Steering
system Jet vanes, air vanes
Accuracy 400 metres (1,310 ft) circular error probable
Launch
platform M474 transporter erector launcher


Pershing II



Weight 7,490 kilograms (16,513 lb)
Length 10.6 metres (34.8 ft)
Diameter 1.02 metres (3.3 ft)
Blast yield W85 nuclear warhead: 5 kilotons of TNT (21 TJ) to 80 kilotons of TNT (330 TJ)
W86 earth penetrator (canceled)
Engine Hercules, two-stage, solid propellant
Operational
range 1,770 kilometres (1,100 mi)
Speed Mach 8+
Guidance
system Singer Kearfott Inertial and
Goodyear Aerospace active radar
Steering
system vector control system (steerable nozzle), air fins
Accuracy 30 metres (100 ft) circular error probable (restrictions apply)
Launch
platform M1003 erector launcher
Transport M1001 MAN tractor in Germany
M983 HEMTT in the U.S.

luke strawwalker 05-24-2011 01:04 PM

I always thought the Pershing I looked somewhat ungainly-- that LONG anteater nosecone and midbody fins, with the little delta fins on the rear stuck on as an 'afterthought'...

The Pershing II looked like a much sleeker, "meaner" looking missile, with its small delta forward fins and larger tailfins and stepped body transition... Plus the accuracy scared the hell out of the Soviets, which is why they went bigtime with the SS-20's to counter it numerically if not in outright performance...

Later! OL JR :)

tbzep 05-24-2011 01:08 PM

I've always liked the looks of the 1A better, probably because my first exposure to any Pershing was from the Estes catalog and knowledge of the 2 came much later.

However, I'd have to think about it a while based on your criteria. Obviously, the 2 has much better capabilities, but this is more like the Military Channel's top ten shows where you rate it based on what else was available in comparison and how much impact it had at the time it was in service.

Chas Russell 05-24-2011 06:29 PM

Two is Better than One
 
History lesson guys and gals. The deployment of the Pershing II and the BGM-109G Gryphon Ground Lauched Cruise Missile (which I worked on) was what brought the then Soviet Union to the Intermediate Nuclear Forces table. Our missile systems were so accurate that they were willing to trade their S-20 tactical nuclear missile. The Pershing II question was not if they could hit the Kremlin, but which window.
I have a GLCM t-shirt that reads: BGM-109 Rocks Moscow hit after hit!

Chas

LeeR 05-24-2011 10:47 PM

My response "kind of" agrees with Luke, definitely with tbzep ...

The 1A definitely looked ungainly, and I guess that was some of the appeal. Loved the long nose in black and white, on top of a green body. I never really knew much about the II until a trip the the Air and Space Museum, and saw one there. But the 1A was always an Estes model I wanted, and sadly never got. Love its great lines of the II certainly, but the nod still goes to the 1A.

ghrocketman 05-26-2011 02:43 PM

I would like to see Estes bring back the Pershing 1A Maxi-Brute, and add a Pershing II to the line. Make them part of their Pro-Series II.

ManofSteele 05-26-2011 10:06 PM

If you worked on both, can you vote twice?

PII was a much better system than P1a - they really learned a lot from P1a and rolled the lessons into PII.

Matt

Daddyisabar 05-27-2011 12:26 PM

The Pershing 1A test missile had the best paint scheme of all time and mated with the ungainly large upper fins for steering in the upper atmosphere it was just plain FUGLY. It is a real treat to get up close to one see what was then high technology but now seems antiquated. Do you like the classic old 1965 Mustang or the Saleen models of the Big 80ís? Do you like the Beetles or Weird Science? This old fart will go for the classic every time. It is the only rocket I have ever launched where the paint scheme is universally loved by the men and despised by the ladies. MGM 31 ROCKS!

JumpJet 07-28-2011 11:51 AM

I have a small protest on this poll. It says I have already voted on this poll, but I have not. On the other hand the 1A is a 3 to 1 favorite at the moment and I'm pretty sure it is going to end up with a spread like this in the end.

I am not sure why people are comparing Real Life Performance with which one they would prefer to see as a kit but I guess everyone makes decisions based on difference reasoning. I know the performance of the M-50 Honest John was much better then the M-30 Honest John but I believe a poll on these two version would show the people prefer the M-30 version.


John Boren

Shreadvector 07-28-2011 11:57 AM

Go back to Wikipedia and correct it. "Motor", not "Engine". :rolleyes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cohetero-negro
Simple poll, you decide which was the better!


J





Weight 4,655 kilograms (10,263 lb)
Length 10.5 metres (34.4 ft)
Diameter 1.02 metres (3.3 ft)
Blast yield W50 nuclear warhead
60 kilotons of TNT (0.25 PJ)
200 kilotons of TNT (0.84 PJ)
400 kilotons of TNT (1.7 PJ)

Engine First stage: Thiokol TX TX-174
115 kN (25,900 lbf) 38.3 s
Second stage: Thiokol TX-175
85 kN (19,100 lbf) 39 s
Operational
range 740 kilometres (460 mi)
Boost time 77.3 seconds
Speed Mach 8
Guidance
system Eclipse-Pioneer ST-120 inertial guidance
Steering
system Jet vanes, air vanes
Accuracy 400 metres (1,310 ft) circular error probable
Launch
platform M474 transporter erector launcher


Pershing II



Weight 7,490 kilograms (16,513 lb)
Length 10.6 metres (34.8 ft)
Diameter 1.02 metres (3.3 ft)
Blast yield W85 nuclear warhead: 5 kilotons of TNT (21 TJ) to 80 kilotons of TNT (330 TJ)
W86 earth penetrator (canceled)
Engine Hercules, two-stage, solid propellant
Operational
range 1,770 kilometres (1,100 mi)
Speed Mach 8+
Guidance
system Singer Kearfott Inertial and
Goodyear Aerospace active radar
Steering
system vector control system (steerable nozzle), air fins
Accuracy 30 metres (100 ft) circular error probable (restrictions apply)
Launch
platform M1003 erector launcher
Transport M1001 MAN tractor in Germany
M983 HEMTT in the U.S.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:10 AM.

Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.