Rocketronix
Poking around in the old Estes 1974 Catalog (online format), I found an ad for the Rocketronix products Estes used to sell.
Does anybody still have/use this old stuff? I'm curious in learning more about it. Thanks! Jim |
the original transmitter was 100mW based on the 27MHz CB radio band. As a result the signal could be received an a standard CB radio or walkie talkie. It was crystal controlled for one channel. The stock transmitter was a beeper that could be used for direction finding. There was a microphone option (which was a earphone) so you could hear what was happening on board, they also had a thermometer option and a photo cell that could be used to measure roll. It was available as a kit, or you could order it assembled for an additional charge. it used a square battery that I think was 6 volts, and was hard to find. I friend of mine built one was never able to get it to work.
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I saw some on ebay recently, so it is around.
I didn't pay much attention to it so no idea what exactly was in the sale or what it sold for. |
That was one of those things (among cold power and the Cineroc) that I wanted back in 73/74 that I could never afford! I did find the scematics and instruction book online at one point so that info is out there.
Beware, though, that most of the Rocketronics you'll see on eBay is the Transroc II, which I think was just a beeper to go in your rocket and a directional microphone to help you "track" your rocket. Really crappy bring back of the name! |
The original factory-assembled Transroc Rocketronics from Estes usually fetch high bids the few times they come up on eBay which is really rare; FAR rarer than Cinerocs, K-29 1/70 Saturn 1B's, and Centuri 1/45 Little Joe II's.
I remember seeing originals on eBay maybe 3 times in the last 5 years. The Transroc II trackers that Estes offered in either the late 90's or early 2000's are genuine junk. Avoid like the plague. |
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They had several of these for sale at Johnny's Toys, which was where I did my rocket shopping from 2001 until just a few years ago when they closed. They were on the racks right up to the end. I was never tempted. Man, I miss Johnny's. :( |
This is a frequency issue. The current FCC plans to make some frequencies available for consumer use. Let's make that happen.
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Back in the late 80's or early 90's I was offered a complete assembled Transroc/Rocketronics NIB setup with all the accessory sensors.
I declined as it seemed to pricey to me as he was offering all the stuff for $80. did not interest me much either. This same person had a garage and basement full of kits including multiple Centuri 1/45 LJII, Saturn V, and Saturn 1B kits. He literally had 2000 sq.ft of kits and motors. I graduated high school with this guy's oldest son. I knew he was an electrical engineer for Ford Motor Company, but never could get a straight answer how he got so much rocket stuff. He welcomed people to his house for rocket kits/motors/components just like a hobby shop. He sold the entire stash he had left to a single collector in the mid 90's. Have no idea who that was. |
I was going through some stuff in my basement yesterday and found my old rocketronix stuff, I have the manual and a base kit with the microphone option, I can scan it and post it somewhere is anybody needs it.
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Sure! Scan it and send it to me at scott@rocketshoppe.com. I'll make it available for people next week when I'm back in town. Thanks! |
it'll take a few days as the book won't fit tin the document feeder of my scanner, so I have to scan it one page at a time.
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Take as long as you need. Thanks. |
Hello All,
Here (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/Tr...wnersManual.pdf and https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...le+Search&gbv=2 ) is the Estes Transroc model rocket radio transmitter owner's manual, which contains schematics of all of the variants of the transmitter (with the different sensors connected to it) as well as complete assembly, use, and troubleshooting instructions, and PC (Printed Circuit) board diagrams--it also includes rocket-locating techniques (using the Transroc in tracking beacon mode). Michael Banks' book "Second Stage: Advanced Model Rocketry" (see: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Sea...+Model+Rocketry ) covers the Transroc transmitter (and others, if memory serves; my copy is boxed-up at the moment) and includes schematics. ALSO: Here (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...74/74est52.html ) is a brief overview of the Transroc transmitter and its optional sensors (microphone, temperature sensor, photocell roll rate sensor, etc.). If the Transroc transmitter appears too daunting for a first project, one of the two transmitters in G. Harry Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry" (the 4th and 5th Editions--these schematics should be preserved on "Ye Olde Rocket Plans," too) has only *six* electronic components! |
Did this ever get posted?
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While I haven't checked the FCC regulations (they're at www.fcc.gov ) regarding this, the new Transroc devices might also, if desired, be able to utilize the new FRS (Family Radio Service) frequencies, and/or the 49 MHz band that has been used for baby monitors. The FRS band and/or the 49 MHz band might even permit digital video transmission, particularly if the FCC's Part 15 rules (which allow low-power transmission on the Long Wave, Medium Wave [AM], Short Wave, FM, TV, and other bands without a license) also have provisions for the FRS and 49 MHz bands. |
I had two original Transrocs.
The first one was the kit you soldered together. I didn't have much experience with soldering and never got it to work. The second was the assembled version. I used the Midland walkie talkie sold by Estes to hear the beeps. I added theTransroc microphone kit to "hear" what was going on inside the rocket. It wasn't very impressive. You heard the hiss of the engine, some wind noise and the ejection charge. Pretty much the same sounds you heard from the ground without the walkie talkie! |
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Is that true? I have a couple old Transrocs and a friend mentioned that the CB bands can't be used for data transmissions anymore. |
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At least in microphone mode, the Transroc is--electronically speaking, due to its output power and modulation mode--just a rocket-borne walkie-talkie. But as a practical matter, the CB channels are pretty empty today because drivers and truckers now have other options (cellphones, smartphones, tablet computers, and satellite phones). Even walkie-talkies now have access to (and are made to operate on) another, higher-frequency band, the FRS (Family Radio Service) band. |
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Estes Transroc (v1) - more info and where to find one...
Estes Transroc (v1) - more info and where to find one...
Hi, all! I'm an old rocketeer being reborn (for a second time) and who's discovering new things about the hobby thanks to the information age. Please indulge me on a couple of queries (and please know I'm new to this forum). The Estes Transroc Transmitter is fascinating. It seems this product was years ahead of its time in this world of low powered model rockets. A tiny CB transmitter able to convey quite a few pieces of telemetric info via citizens band radio. How cool, educational and fun is that? I found a pdf copy of both the thick-as-hell Transroc operating manual and the Rocketronix catalag. Judging from the info I'm able to find this was no mere toy but a sophisticated instrument for the passionate hobbyist. So it seems some of those on here have had a small bit of experience with this unit but I have not run across accounts from people that have explored this in any great depth. I would love to have my own T-roc unit to play with. Do any of you have one? Have actual experience with one?are curious about knowing more? Can YOU build one from schematics?? Please engage me in this interesting conversation. Looking forward to responses... |
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A more elegant (and slightly lighter and more compact) solution would be to make--or have made--a custom PC (Printed Circuit) board. (PC board-making kits are available, and there are also custom PC board-making companies that make them to customers' specifications.) If memory serves, the Transroc manual (I've seen the scanned online one that I posted links to, in Reply #13 *here* http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showt...8848#post198848 ) even has an illustration of the Transroc's PC board, which would make it easy to duplicate. In addition: You've just inspired an idea for getting the Transroc back in production, at least (to start with) as a kit. The Xtal Set Society (see: www.midnightscience.com ) is a crystal radio enthusiast group and supplier ("xtal" being an abbreviation for "crystal")--but they don't just deal with crystal radios (they offer several of their own-design, soldered-on-PC board *and* "no soldering required" crystal radio kits). They also sell one-tube radio kits, antenna tuner kits, and other device kits, and many of their soldered kits include custom-made PC boards. (I have no financial stake in the Xtal Set Society--I'm just a satisfied customer of theirs!) Now: While I haven't talked with them about this and can't speak for them, I think they might be interested in producing the Transroc kit, and/or the simple, six-component 27 MHz rocket tracking transmitter in G. Harry Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry," to sell to model rocketeers and to schools and youth groups. (Both transmitters could also be used for numerous non-model rocketry educational and hobby purposes.) As well: One problem that the "'way back when" Transroc users had (which should be easy to solve today) was the lack of ready-made signal processing equipment for making meaningful use of the received Transroc data (for the modes other than the onboard microphone and the roll rate sensor [using a photocell], because these two modes required only recording the Transroc's received audio). The other modes, such as measuring the air temperature, needed a chart recorder interfaced to the receiver. But today, there are readily-available data loggers and signal processing programs for personal computers and mobile devices such as tablet computers, and these would be very useful for processing the data from the various Transroc sensor modes. Instead of using a chart recorder, the data could be viewed on the computer's screen and be printed, for hard copies, using an ordinary printer. I don't know how to do this myself, but there are many computer mavens here on YORF who would know how to do this. |
just about every computer you can buy these days comes equipped with an analog to digital converter and the software to run it :), they're called sound cards. hmm, looks like I will have to do a little digging to find a simple audio recorder program, should be easy to find. knew of some folks who used some easy to find parts to measure muzzle velocity and chamber pressure of spud guns along with a cheap tape recorder to record the data. at the time they used 'windows recorder' to input the audio as a sound file, I suppose that any thing with a microphone would work to record data, you just need a audio recording.
Rex |
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just looked, my box has a line input so I could feed it audio from my tape deck (in stereo) also has at least two mic inputs(mono). of course it occurs to me that one could, with a little work, use a 'Mr. Microphone' and get the same results as the rocketronics unit :). as I recall the guy used a 'button' piezo mic as a pressure sensor, since it wasn't calibrated we didn't know what pressures were reached in the combustion chamber...but he was able to analyze the data down to the millisecond (whole event took 45 ms from ignition to spud leaving the barrel). one could do much the same to get an accelerometer.
looks like one could use 'win voice recorder' to input an analog audio signal. I am reasonably sure that there are other free 'apps' that one could use. Rex |
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A legal-power (FCC Part 15 rules) FM wireless microphone ("Mr. Microphone") doesn't have much range (the allowed field strength is very low). The Part 15 AM rules, while still restricting such transmissions to low power, are more generous, allowing an output power of 100 milliwatts, fed into a 3 meter long antenna. (Most hobbyist and neighborhood broadcasters use Part 15 AM transmitters for this reason; the ground lead length is included in the 3 meter length, so the transmitter chassis, or its case [if made of metal] is the RF ground). In addition: A rocket carrying a Part 15 AM transmitter could trail a 3 meter long length of very thin enameled wire (magnet wire) as the antenna, and a foil-wrapped transmitter housing tube (payload tube) could serve as its RF ground. The 27 MHz (CB band) Transroc could have a more efficient antenna, however, since 3 meters is just a tiny fraction of even the highest AM channel's 1/4 wavelength, while a full-size 1/4 wavelength CB antenna is only about 2-3/4 meters long. As well: What motor was used? I don't see how a chamber pressure sensor could be installed in a model rocket motor (the only ones I'm familiar with are installed in the head ends of full-scale core-burning solid motors, in or near the head-end igniter housing). Or was the piezo microphone set up behind the nozzle, so that the exhaust stream passing near the microphone affected the air pressure near it? |
not sure of the exact size...somewhere around 4500 cm^3 (this was a spud gun, the combustion chamber constructed from 3" pvc pipe), probably weighed in at around 10 pounds :). this said, he had a fair amount of room to work with(not to mention a far less hostile environment 0.05 seconds doesn't give the plastic time to warm much. we were running computer fans inside the chambers). piezo mics work on a change of state so they would only register an increase/decrease in pressure not an unchanging background pressure.
Rex |
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Wow! Looks like I lit quite a candle here!
Thank Blackshire and Rex R for your enthusiasm. I'm very interested in the info you have posted. Here one link I found to the T-roc manual where the unit is described in exhaustive detail. I'm sure, if Blackshire is correct about easy assembly, one could be built from these schematics. I would be interested but, regardless, I would like to purchase an actual vintage unit (and modules) and go from there. The T-roc seems very sophisticated. Software? Garageband or Protools should suffice. So DOES anyone know of a T-roc somebody would be willing to sell? |
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All you'll need to receive the simple tone transmitter is a cheap 27 MHz walkie-talkie (just make sure the transmitter's crystal oscillator is the same frequency--the same CB channel, that is--as the walkie-talkie's). Ebay www.ebay.com sellers offer the crystal oscillators and the other components of the six-component transmitter (the Xtal Set Society www.midnightscience.com might, too). If you get the walkie-talkie first, you can buy a crystal oscillator of the same frequency for the transmitter, with no worries about it being "cut" for Channel 9 (the emergency channel, the only one of the 40 CB channels that you can't legally use for non-emergency transmissions). The tone transmitter can also be modified to do other things, as is covered in the payload chapter's text. |
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Hey there Rocketronix people!
I apologize in advance for reviving an old thread, but I wanted to let the group know about a project I'm working on. In short, I'm in the process of cloning the original Transroc. I had one back-in-the-day, and I thought it might be a fun project to get one up and running. Instead of duplicating what I've already posted, here's the link to the project page here on YORF: https://oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=19183 This second link is a more technical Build Log for those interested: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/proje...ry-transmitter/ Stay safe! -Frank |
There's no need to apologize, Frank, and in fact, thanks are in order, and here are mine! The Transroc isn't just an interesting piece of vintage model rocket equipment (although it is that), but is a device that is equally useful today, as it was back then (probably even more so today, now that the signal [data] recording and analysis equipment, and software, are so ubiquitous; plus, the CB band isn't used as much today, so signal interference would occur only very rarely), and:
While the Transroc (which was sold both pre-built and in kit form) uses a printed circuit board, that isn't a necessity for a home-brewed clone. Perfboard (which is made of the same phenolic board used for printed circuits, but without the copper film, and with rows of small holes [perforations, hence the name]), with soldered wire connections between the electronic components, will work just as well (printed circuit boards make the large-volume and even mass production of electronic devices easier). The Fourth and Fifth Editions of G. Harry Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry" (and probably earlier ones, too) include, in the chapter about payloads, schematics for two CB rocket transmitters. One is a very simple, single-transistor, "Here I am!" beacon transmitter, and the other is a three-transistor, AM-FM telemetry transmitter (a drawing of it--showing its perfboard, its electronic components, and the wire connections between them--is also included, along with the schematic). However: "Roll your own" PCB (Printed Circuit Board) kits are even available now, which enable an individual to make his or her own printed circuit boards at home; ham radio operators and schools often use these, but for making just one or two devices, using perfboard and wire is probably cheaper. (Hams who are into QRP--low-power operation--often use oscillator crystals [which, by themselves, can be used as QRP Morse Code transmitters at Short Wave and other frequencies--*this* https://makerf.com/posts/fun_with_c...illators_part_1 site shows an AM band one] with PCB kits, to make pocket-size QRP transmitters [and even transceivers; some hams sell these in kit form]; the battery, Morse Code key, and antenna and ground wires are connected via standard jacks or plugs, whose leads are soldered to the PCB inside the case [which can be a standard electronic project cabinet box, or even an Altoids mints--or Sucrets throat lozenges--package box!].) Also: For small-scale batch, "cottage industry" production, though, the PCB kits are ideal; if one were going to make five or more Transrocs, and their various sensor modules (any patents on them are long expired), exact duplicates could be made using the PCB kits (if I seem to be hinting at something [involving Ebay and/or Etsy], I am... :-) ). |
...maybe I will post a bit more of 'status' here....
The goal of this project is to make as close of an exact duplicate of the original Transroc as possible. The links in my previous post have more technical details, but here's a summary: The boards are done. Unless you need a board "today", it's almost not worth it these days to etch your own boards. It is so cheap that you can get dozens made for literally a few dollars. In fact, shipping from China cost more than the boards. ^-- sorry for the out-of-focus photo. The modulator section has been breadboarded and is working. I'm working on the RF section now. The coils have been wound based on the data in the manual. If you were hinting at the $250 price tag for the Microphone kit on ebay, I seriously doubt it will sell at that price. In fact, just a couple of months ago the Microphone and Spin Rate kits sold for $39/$52 respectively. Most of the manuals are posted over at transroc.org. So things are moving along... |
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Regarding the custom PCBs' low cost, I read on a ham radio website (after posting my message here late last night) that local PCB printing houses, like local printing houses (they're like small POD--Print-On-Demand--publishers), can print multiple, custom-layout printed circuit boards for quite low per-PCB costs, even if only about five copies of the PCB are needed. Amateur radio clubs often make up batches of soldering practice kits, Morse Code oscillator kits [for code practice], simple radio receiver kits [such as Short Wave Xtal sets <crystal radio receiver kits>], and QRP [low-power] transmitters and/or transceivers that utilize custom-printed PCBs, for amateur radio clubs in schools, Scout troops, and 4-H clubs, and: At the school in the isolated town of Eagle, Alaska, Professor Neal Brown--a long-time ham radio operator and a former Director of the Poker Flat Research Range [our sounding rocket launch site, 30 miles north of Fairbanks]--teaches the "Middle School grades" kids at the Eagle Community School how to solder connections properly and build radios, using such kits that he (in concert with the local Arctic Amateur Radio Club) has made up in small batches; he teaches the lessons via a Skype audio and video connection. It is very effective; each year, several of the kids earn their FCC Technician class amateur radio licenses (and when the Novice class licenses were still offered in previous years, the children earned those). Even those who choose not to become amateur radio operators learn useful--and marketable--skills in proper soldering of electronic circuits, how to read resistor color band codes, how to test transistors and other electronic components to determine whether they're still in working order (transistors' wave forms on an oscilloscope screen yield such information), and so on; plus: The Transroc clones that you're making might also interest them and their teacher, Marlys House (she also has a long-running model rocketry STEM--Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics--courses enrichment program, and over the years Neal and I have located and donated model rocketry equipment to her program). She and Neal might prefer the Transroc kits, as they could combine the electronics & radio lessons with the model rocketry STEM courses enrichment program. Also, the Transroc would be useful in R/C model sailplanes, as a "model-finding beacon," and the temperature sensor module would probably be useful in such models for finding thermals (bubbles or columns of warm, rising air, which sailplanes--full-scale as well as model ones [even F/F--Free-Flight--model ones]--ride in order to gain altitude, over Sun-heated darker ground areas). |
I have zero education on electronics. However, I've been buying old junk police scanners, crystal and early programmable ones, and repairing them. It's usually bad capacitors and the occasional cold solder joint, so I'm not doing much more than replacing caps, cleaning pots, and resoldering here and there. Once done, I get to have some cool looking retro electronics that work, even though modern stuff is available. I completely understand why you are doing your project and have enjoyed every post. :cool:
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You probably have seen and recognized these various module circuits many times (and noticed how they are found in all sorts of electronic devices [and in their power supply circuits]), but not knowing their names, you just couldn't point to one and say--to give just one example--"*That's* a Darlington amplifier!" (a very common module circuit using two transistors, whose leads are connected to that the two transistors work 'in tandem' to boost an input or output signal). But if you looked up these module circuits in an electronics dictionary (Tandy had good ones, probably available on AbeBooks, Amazon, etc.) or encyclopedia that shows their schematics, I'm sure you would instantly recognize them. |
I know just enough to wish I had taken a course or two when I was in college. lol
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RadioShack (with no spacing between the words: https://www.radioshack.com/ ) is, I was happy to discover, still in business, and doing quite well. The name Tandy (and it was, indeed, the same firm of "Tandy Leather" fame; I'd wondered about that, as there was a Tandy Leather shop near our home in Miami) was changed to RadioShack Corporation in 2000, and later simply RadioShack (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RadioShack ). Below are links to other Tandy/Radio Shack reference and project books (and their old 75-In-1, 150-In-1, and other electronic projects sets can still be found on Ebay--they're excellent [and solder-less, and fully reusable, except for the AA and 9 volt batteries] "learn-by-doing" kits): Tandy Books Archive (sort of like the JimZ and Ninfinger Productions of Tandy books): https://archive.org/details/tandy_books 120 Tandy (RadioShack) publications download "batch": https://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Shac...F-/123593132539 [It costs $5.99, but is well worth it--this would be perfect to keep on a memory stick, for read-out on a computer screen, from where the publications could be printed as desired] "The Science Fair Story/History of Electronics" https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/comics.htm |
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