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-   -   andromeda (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=19628)

Initiator001 06-15-2021 11:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by motley16
I just dont understand how the andromeda would have poor sales. They are not in stock for how long now from the manufacturers that have them. Guess ill never understand.
Well to me estes could simply reproduce the entire 1978 collection and i would be very happy. :)


For a kit to be successful for Estes it must sell 5,000-10,000 units per year.
That's the level where price breaks for components and profit meet.

The Pro Series II line failed because the Hobbico management expected those kits to sell 5,000 or more units per year. Those kits did not so those products were cancelled.

ghrocketman 06-16-2021 12:47 AM

Selling 5,000 to 10,000 of ANY rocket kit has to be tough with the dwindling numbers of those in this hobby.

NOLA_BAR 06-16-2021 07:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
Estes may no longer own the rights to the name and trade dress for the model.
Additionally, scifi-ish models often have lower sales volumes and don't have very big production runs.

Same with scale kits. Limited sales.


For some reason I always believed Semroc picked up the rights to all the vintage Estes/Centuri designs. It may be more complicated than that, but look at the Mars Snooper, Semroc has the original design, Estes an upscale, and Semroc again with possibly an even larger upscale? Doesn’t matter really, as you said if Estes doesn’t think a particular kit can meet sales goals, then if eRockets/Semroc wants to try and produce a LPR kit, it will still most likely burn Estes motors.

ghrocketman 06-16-2021 10:07 AM

Agree that Semroc products (Other than the older SLS or newer Pro-series products) will most likely use Estes motors for flight.
This is a Win-Win for both companies for smaller production run kits favored by us old-timer BARs.

Unfortunately the dream of getting single-use "boutique" black powder high-thrust 18mm and 24mm Semroc (or any other brand) motors most likely has been lost forever....still hoping Estes will bring back the B8-3,5,7, and 0 along with the C5-0.
Costs (Production Facilities/Equipment..."Block House and Heavy Equipment" and Materials, Engineering/Design, Marketing, Liability Insurance...for BOTH Product AND production, NAR or Tripoli Certification...although I STILL question the value of this, and Labor ) for small "niche" motors most likely are ridiculously prohibitive in any sort of "standard/profitable" business model.

At least Aerotech and Quest produce Small Market/Niche LPR and MPR motors. Availability of these products is far lower however. Generally these are available via ordering only (or at launches if vendor supported) and not in any (only the far BEST brick/mortar hobby stores any longer) traditional retail settings. Single-use Estes motors are available at virtually all hobby stores, along with "Better" specialized "home stores (Hobby Lobby, Michaels)". Not so with Composite Motors, although in the past Hobby Lobby and some Michaels stores carried both Aerotech and Quest motors. Was REALLY sad to see Hobby Lobby discontinue carrying SU Aerotech motors when that happened about 10 years ago. Snapped up a lot of those on 75% discount clearance though. I think I paid like $3/each for F26FJ motors and under that for E30T/E15W motors.

TigerHawk 06-17-2021 12:38 PM

gh, are there HobbyTown stores near you? If so I believe they stock some of the SU and reloadable composite motors.

ghrocketman 06-17-2021 04:27 PM

The last Hobby Town we had within 200 miles of me closed about 15-20 years ago.
The lunkhead owner tried getting full retail for everything at a time when everyone was exploring prices online. My R/C club told him it would never work when he attended our open house in around 2000. He didn't last 3 years before liquidating. It was within 15 miles of my home. The only thing I purchased from him was Glow Fuel, glue, and APC Props. Charging retail $29.95 for a servo one could get online for $15.98 never worked. Same for engines, airplane kits, and rocket kits one could get online for 40% less.

afadeev 06-21-2021 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Selling 5,000 to 10,000 of ANY rocket kit has to be tough with the dwindling numbers of those in this hobby.


Actually, the number of folks in the hobby is not dwindling, it's growing.

There was a NARCOM presentation from a year or so ago (wish I could find a link to it), that showed healthy trend of NAR membership growth, reaching all time high levels in 2020.

a

Initiator001 06-22-2021 10:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev
Actually, the number of folks in the hobby is not dwindling, it's growing.

There was a NARCOM presentation from a year or so ago (wish I could find a link to it), that showed healthy trend of NAR membership growth, reaching all time high levels in 2020.

a


As someone who used to work in sales and marketing at a hobby rocket company (AeroTech) the number of product sales has very little correlation with the number of NAR members.

NAR members make up a small percentage of sales. Most model rocket (1/4A-G motor) product sales go to non-NAR individuals.

I am glad the membership numbers for the NAR are increasing but it will have little direct effect on model rocket product sales.

afadeev 06-23-2021 10:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
As someone who used to work in sales and marketing at a hobby rocket company (AeroTech) the number of product sales has very little correlation with the number of NAR members.

NAR members make up a small percentage of sales. Most model rocket (1/4A-G motor) product sales go to non-NAR individuals.

Agreed that for a rocketry supplier, sales volume is all that matters. The membership affiliation of the buyer is irrelevant.
The strength and variety of distribution channels should have much greater impact on sales than buyer demographics. In that regard, present day rocketry supplies presence in major retailers is disappointing.

However, I do expect that the correlation between NAR membership and general rocketry interest to be positive, and somewhat stable over time. Definitely not 1, but above 0 and positive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
I am glad the membership numbers for the NAR are increasing but it will have little direct effect on model rocket product sales.


Direct - very little indeed.
Indirect, as an indicator of the overall health of the hobby (from SpaceX and other space industry related activities in the news) - those are all good leading indicators.

My reply was in response to a sentiment that the numbers of those in the hobby is dwindling. I don't think that's true at all.

a

Initiator001 06-23-2021 11:28 PM

Since this thread has already gone off in another direction, let me share a piece of information.

Last month I was speaking with the person who developed and ran the Estes Aerospace Club (EAC) program back in the 1970s.

He informed me that at it's peak the EAC had over 25,000 members! :eek:


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