Seeking data/pictures: Misty picture Talos Terrier sounding rockets
 

I find references to Talos Terrier sounding rockets being used as part of the Misty Picture big bang test. but I can't find drawing or pictures.

I'm interested in the payload/nosecone.

Charles,

I'm searching . . . I found a PDF file for the project, so far.

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a283521.pdf

Also :

https://ia903100.us.archive.org/0/i...C_ADA283521.pdf

Dave F.

Thanks Dave. I had found those also. Still no pictures, though.

I have seen a photo pf a Terrier with a scientific payload that looked a lot like the one I made for my Malemute. I might set up to just use that.

This is a "tough one", Charles !

Dave F.

Voila!

That's awesome Chris!!

I wonder what that nosecone is? It looks like a 10-11 degree cone with a blunt tip.

And the circle under the nosecone? Not likely to be a NASA meatball.

It gives me something to work with, though! And I'd like to fly the Talos Terrier before I try a Talos Terrier Recruit or a Talos Terrier Black Brant.

Wow, I'm wondering how that image was created.

What comes to mind is an almost Rube Goldberg "image scanner" that was used in the mid 1980's with a Macintosh's Imagewriter dot-matrix printer. The ribbon cartridge was replaced by the scanner sensor in a housing the same shape as the cartridge.

The object being scanned HAD to be a photo or paper, capable of being inserted into the printer and advanced by the print rollers. Actually, come to think of it, the Imagerwriter used pin-feed paper, so I think whatever was scanned had to be taped onto pin-feed paper first.

The image scan cartridge made a single horizontal run, the software would advance the paper a tiny bit, and then another horizontal scan, and so on. Very slow. And not very good quality. But it worked, and was not very expensive. Not saying I think this was used on that image.

Ah, googled it. "Thunderscan". Cost a bit more than I remembered (I never had one, saw Matt Steele using one). Article:
https://www.appleworld.today/blog/2...owback-thursday

"ThunderScan" . . . Sounds like a title of a new James Bond film . . . LOL !

Seriously, I wonder where the original image is and where it was accessed from ?

Dave F.

Some more tidbits

Chris, thank you for the pictures.

It does bring me back to my dilemma of 'what to build'. I've worked out some dimensions, so I can whip up a payload and nosecone that will look good from a distance. And I figure I'll run with that.

The drawings and photo suggest that the Terrier stage flew with a set of fins that look a -lot- like the Malemute fins. They appear to be upscaled compared to the Malemute - when I run the numbers to compare to my Malemute sim, the difference is bigger than I think measurement error would explain.

The Talos looks like its flying with the larger area Terrier fin option.

And the stack looks just like the pictures of the Talos Terrier Recruit.

I'm not going to build a second Talos or Terrier, though. I'll have to settle for less than scale.

Charles,

I hope the attached items are helpful.

Dave F.

The drawing is to scale.

Proportioned measurements for Terrier fins:

Fin root length 30.8" (42.2" if swept length is included)
Fin tip length 5.6"
Fin leading edge cuff 1.5"
Fin Tip Trailing edge width 1.8"
Fin root trailing edge width 4.6"
Overall Fin span 59.8"

That's -really- similar to the Malemute fins, scaled from 16" motor diameter to 18". Except the tip chord. The Terrier swept delta fin has a smaller tip chord, and maybe a slightly wider span. I didn't run all the numbers.

Grrr... now I'm contemplating making a proper variant of the Terrier at this scale. That means i have to make a couple more 3.44" tubes. Well, the holidays are coming up and I've got plenty of vacation time.

A Talos with the Terrier-esque fins would be more challenging - I don't have another piece of 5" shipping tube. And probably wouldn't use it if I had. That stuff is -heavy-.

Charles,

Peel the inside layers and use a single layer of lightweight fiberglass cloth on the exterior or use Rick Boyette's "Quasi-Glass" method for reinforcement !

Dave F.

I don't think the hose will add much strength. I'd just give the tube a thin coat of resin and not go through the hassle of funny looks in the lingerie dept.

In my case, I 3D printed a 'sleeve' to go over the cardboard to expand the diameter to scale. I'm not worried about the strength.

I -should- have peeled the inside diameter. And would, If I did it again. I think I've epoxied the centering rings in place. If I haven't, then maybe I'll do the peel job. Otherwise I'll resign myself to 6 grain 38mm motors and a pound of nose weight.

That was Rick's initial approach . . . Later, for HPR, he started using "Drain Sleeve" material.

I have a PDF of that, but it is too large to upload . . . Let me see what I can come up with !

Dave F.

Rick Boyette's "Quasi-Glass" method . . .

The first 9 images show the HPR "Drain Sleeve" method . . . The last 2 images show the "Pantyhose Method".

"Drain Sleeve" . . .

https://www.lowes.com/pl/Drain-slee...ment=4294801513

Dave F.

More Terrier combinations

Chris,

That data is very interesting . . .

Are there any photo's of them available ?

Dave F.

These are all I have found so far on the Terrier-Orion.
Not necessarily the target version, but still useful.

Nifty picks.

I don't have the Orion on my to-do list - though it looks like BT80 would be a nice size tubing to match my 1:5.2 fleet. Hmmmm....

I've got 4" tubing in hand for an Oriole, so I guess that will be up first.

Here's the first stack of my Misty Picture Talos Terrier build.

Very cool, Charles!

That's just a display stand at the moment - though I do use it for LPR and MPR launches. It's a bicycle repair stand I picked up cheap at Aldi a couple years ago after seeing George Gassaway point them out. It holds 1" rail really nicely, and I've got adapters for several sizes of rods. And it's not so close to the ground, which my back appreciates.

Update on the Talos Terrier build: creeping toward flight readiness.

Wow, Charles . . . It looks GREAT !

Dave F.

I second that! Nice work!

And in flight. It didn't stage - I need to go looking for a short. But it recovered correctly, so I'll try again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzQ5P27toao

Charles,

Check continuity on the Igniter itself . . . It might have been a bad Bridge Wire.

Dave F.

I will do that as part of the troubleshooting - but it did read continuity on the pad.

So I suspect I've got a short in one section of wire or another. Or even at the wire wrap and tape at the igniter.

Chasing electrical problems is the worst, especially in cars.

Happy hunting, Charles !

Dave F.

Second flight went properly. I don’t have a video put together yet - still working on end of quarter alcohol filings.

But Justin Farrand got a lovely shot of the lift off.

(Attached)