WI-Roc!
 

This is a thread for all things related to Woosh's very own Loc/Precision WI-Roc, a group build for 2018!

Feel free to post your build progress, tips and tricks, discussion relating to contests, rules, and trophies, and so on. As of 1/20/18, we're looking at 30 or more WI-Rocs that will take shape and rule the skies in 2018! Join in the fun, and share in the fun here!!!

[IMG][/IMG]

That rocket planform looks quite similiar to several past kits.

Well sure. Some parts utilized in this design have been around since the 80's...arguably since the birth of HPR! Some features of this Woosh-exclusive are "Firsts" however for a Loc release; making it a bit "special" and unique. We'll see if it makes it into the real world as a formal release...in the meantime this is a special small run release for the Woosh Org.

The intent of the design is a low cost rocket that can be built easily, catering to a myriad of rocketeers that fall under the Woosh umbrella. Flyable at Class 1 waiver-less events due to its light weight, yet strong enough to handle Level 1 motors without reinforcement, and Level 2 motors with a bit of reinforcement. Versatility is the key word; not too unlike many USR offerings. ;)

There is only so much you can do with a trapezoidal fin planform after-all!

Motor Mount
 

Since there are no agreed upon rules yet, I'll take the opportunity to customize my WI-Roc a bit. Starting off with the motor mount, I like the three ring arrangement. The rings are glued both fore and aft of the fin tabs, as well as near the front of the motor tube.

I did two modifications to the mount.

1. I added the tailcone/boat tail. A few reasons: I like a little tail on a rocket, the U-Roc had them, and most importantly, I had a random chopped up section of a conical nosecone in my scrap box.
2. I replaced the screw eye in the forward ring with a #10-24 eye bolt. The screw eye was a bit of a loose fit, the 10-24" eye fit the pre-existing hole perfectly and I like the insurance of having a nut on the backside.

The completed assembly:

[IMG][/IMG]

For cord attachment, I simply looped the cord through the pre-sewn cord. I found it fit better in the airframe when passing the cord from the motor tube side to the outside...like this:

[IMG][/IMG]

Pass the free end through the loop and pull tight. The resulting attachment point looks like this:

[IMG][/IMG]

Don't forget to attach that cord before gluing the mount in the airframe! I almost did... :rolleyes:

I glued the completed mount into the lower airframe....no photos of the step, sorry. Then I got distracted with other projects....squirrel!

-Eric-

Not nearly as far as Eric, but I did fill the spirals.

This will be my first MPR/HPR build in my new work space. That's what I'm looking forward to.

ALL ABOARD the WI-ROC Express
 

Wow! I haven't been here in a while. Could there really have been 3,906 posts since my last visit? I Had to use 4 of my 5 passwords attempts and ended up with a new pass word anyhow. But I'm going to be hanging around this thread from now on. I haven't done anything so far on mine, but I will post a few pics as soon as I make some progress. That's if I remember how to do it.
I think this might be a good place to post contest recommendations and ideas too.
I like the boat tail idea and will probably sacrifice a nose cone myself, Eric.
Jump on the WI-ROC ( yeah, I'm going for all CAPS on the name)
Post 'em if ya got 'em.
This is gonna be good.
-Walt

Wi-roc / WrE / 2018 / DRY FIT
 

feeling my way through the dark.
testing photo posts
DRY FIT WI-ROC
PICTURES please.....

Wi-roc / WrE / 2018
 

How dry I am.....WI-ROC DRY FIT
First look thoughts:
Best Fins EVER. Beveled right outta the bag, NICE TOUCH LOC!
TTW fin mounts are a must. Fin Slots are tight and accurate.
AERO PACK retainer & Aero Pack 38-29 mm adapter means no tail cone on this WI-ROC
Design features a substantial length and diameter and has a good looking profile.
Everything fits well with just a little bit of edge sanding on centering ring.
The WI-ROC comes as a first class kit. I can't wait to see what variables the WOOSHers will come up with.
I don't think I'll win The First WI-ROC Completed Award.
I just picked up a LOC Electronics Bay. I think it might come in handy to expand the versatility of the already super versatile WI-ROC. That's definitely down the road, but it's a good learning tool for me.

Wi-roc / WrE / 2018 / MOTOR MOUNT
 

WI-ROC BUILD REPORT
Back again. This time I have begun the first step in any rocket build -even in ESTES rockets:
Build the motor mount.
The motor mount on the WI-ROC will accommodate a 38 mm motor. I bought a 38 to 29mm adapter for mine from LOC during our tour in January. It's an AERO PACK product. Nice! More on that later. While I'm talking about AERO PACK- that's an AERO PACK 38 mm aluminum retainer on the aft end. I mainly use low cure epoxy, scratch the inside of the mount and the outside of the motor tube. Move on to the centering rings, BOTTOM RING is right on the retainer.
MIDDLE RING needs to be placed so fin tabs fit tight. Epoxy again - a Popsicle stick puts a good filet around any outside curve. TOP RING holds the Shock cord anchor. Has to be well supported.
This is such a cool rocket. I want to use it to experiment with a number of technologies:
Video
Dual deployment
and radio tracking or GPS tracking
Most of these subject are pretty much unknown to me.
I have a lot of plans for this rocket.
I'll be taliking about that here.
-Walt

Next time
I get baffled.

bamboo skewers work well for applying adhesives and have a longer reach.
Rex
p.s.
looking good so far

Wi-roc / WrE / 2018 / BAFFLE
 

WI-ROC It's Baffling
I decided to do another experiment on this here rocket:
Build and install a deployment Baffle.
A well designed baffle will improve parachute deployment and definitely add to the life of the chute and THE JOLLY LOGIC CHUTE RELEASE that I want to use on the rocket. It's a little bit more weight. But I'm not concerned about weight . As long as it's stable, and it will be, this rocket could actually be used to load a J motor and go for level 2. So I made the baffle out of 1/8 inch plywood, 3 half pipe panels rotated 120 degrees, and spaced 1 inch apart spiral mounted inside a joiner tube (epoxy) attached to the end of the motor mount tube (epoxy again). I had to split the bottom 30 X 2.6 inch body tube to make sure the baffle and motor tube assembly was properly placed. Now I have a new experiment in mind about strengthening that seam....and everything else on the air frame. LOC included a generous nylon shock cord which will play a primary roll in the baffle system. I attached a BIG swivel also from LOC . Probably too big but again a little weight for a good spin. and it looks real nice at the end of that shock cord.

Next:
Low Resin Rendezvous

WI-ROC ON!!
Walt

Wi-ROC / WrE / 2018 / AFT END
 

A couple more pictures to illustrate progress on WI-ROC.
A picture's worth at least a thousand words.
Here's probably a half million.

Split Body Tube

Seam after joining

WI-ROC / WrE / 2018 / TOP END
 

Here's some shots of the TOP END of WI-ROC

The BULK HEAD w/ eye screw
One of the NYLON SET SCREWS that secures
the UPPER PAYLOAD SECTION[ to the TUBE CONNECTOR with
BULKHEAD]

I intend to use the WI-ROC to lift a variety of payloads with a variety of motors.
This is the original 15 inch PAYLOAD SECTION that came with the stock kit.
The NOSECONE is also held in place with nylon screws. Both ends can be opened for payload access.

WI-ROC / WrE / 2018 Electonics Bay
 

This is the LOC PRECISION ELECTRONICS BAY

It's a connector between the UPPER and LOWER SEGMENTS of WI-ROC> that has a flat ELECTRONICS SLED sled inside to which an ALTIMETER and BATTERY are attached.
More on that later. I hope to do some experiments with DUAL DEPLOYMENT using this ELECTRONICS BAY

The BULK HEADS are held together with wing nuts securing 1/8 inch threaded rods that run through the ELECTRONICS BAY

At this point the ELECTRONICS BAY is incomplete, as you can tell by all of these leftover nuts and washers.. I'll get around to those later, or maybe not.

Thanx Rex
I like that bamboo stick idea.
I buy them at the $1 Store.
always handy.

WI-ROC / WrE / 2018 / NYLO-GLAS
 

A long time ago I read about using nylon stockings as the fiber in fiber glas.
Not sure if that's technically fiber glass, more like Nylo-Glas. That's what I'm calling it NYLO- GLAS
So ,Step#1 --sand the shine off the glassine top layer of the tubes. This promotes good adhesion of the nylon to the paper below.I used a couple different sponge sanders. the roughest was 80 the smoothest was 150.
Step #2 -- pull nylon stocking over tube and tie knot in both ends. The nylon was stretched slightly so that it had good contact with the tube. The end knots hold the tension. Nylon is a pretty fine mesh but it's not as absorbent as fiber glass cloth. The cylindrical nature of the nylon stocking is a great advantage in even distribution around the air frame.
Step #3 --Both of the original tubes ready for the resin. I also made another 30 inch length of NYLO-REZ enforced LOC 2.6 inch diameter tube. This was cut in half to make two additional 15 inch PAYLOAD SECTIONS.
I chose ZAP Z- POXY Finish Resin to bond the nylon to the paper. I don't know if there's something better. This was the brand available at the hobby store just west of here. It has a 40 minute cure time. It leveled itself real well, and did not run excessively. I made an effort to keep the resin coat thin and even. Applied with brush. Relatively low viscosity.
It seems to have worked perfectly in this case. Had to sand the NYLO-GLAS smooth, as it had lots of little irregularities. Still needs primer but no can do in WI WEATHER.

At this point, the finish while rough is strong as hell. and mostly water proof. I'll settle for that.The NYLO-GLAS added about 3-4 ounces of weight to the air frame. Not bad at all.
Stay tuned for further adventures coming soon.

Just a reminder that I have the e-bay bands for those of you that have purchased the e-bay during the tour of LOC. I will have them at the meeting this month and will try and get them to launches if anyone needs them. Let me know.

I think there are a few extra nuts and bolts that were sent along Walt so don't be to concerned if you end up with extra.

Dan

WI-ROC / WrE / 2018 / Cured NYLO-GLAS finishing
 

After 24 hour full cure time on the Z-POXY, sanding and trimming was the main task at hand. I was happy to see that nothing warped, or swelled and that everything still fits together just fine. At this point the weight of the air frame, the fins (still unfinished) and nose cone is: 1 pound 10.4 ounces or 750 grams. I am glad to see that ( without a parachute and motor ) the WI-ROC is still under 2 pounds.

Looking good, Walt!!!! You're rockin' it!!! :)

I need to post an update of progress on my WI-Roc....

-Eric-

WI-ROC / WrE / 2018 / Misc.
 

Here are some Miscellaeous Pictures of related WI-ROC topics.
1st --That's a 1/10 downscale of the WI-ROC to be flown at
The MARCH MADNESS MICRO-MAXX MADNESS Launch coming up 3/3/2018 at The SOD FARM
Micro WI-ROC is seen here next to full scale nose cone and body tube in primer.

2nd -- Here's a picture of the bamboo skewers that Rex R. was talking about a while ago.
Rex is right ! They are really handy for spreading glue and resin. and if you ever want to make tempura, they're a must.

3rd -- We went down to NIRCON 2018 in Woodstock, Il. Rocket Master Bob Kaplow gave a demo on cutting centering rings and bulkheads. I followed Bob's lead, and made a batch of plywood cookies. Shown BEFORE & AFTER the Great Epoxy Flood.

COMING UP----
I have a new experiment in mind. :
....Strong to the Finish,
'cause I eats me spinach

I gather that things didn't go quite the way you had planned when you stuck the bulkheads in place :). a heat lamp and a putty knife may be your best bet to clean up the flood. I've been known to glue a bit of paper over holes to seal them up.
a note about skewers(which one can find at the grocery store), during the summer one can also find marshmellon skewers for toasting them over bonfires, the ones I found are 36" long.
Rex

WI-ROC / WrE / 2018 / Fin Glas
 

After a short break I am back on the WI-ROC build.
It's time to apply some fiberglass reinforcement to the fins.
The 3 plywood fins included in the WI-ROC have pre-beveled edges. This is an awesome feature that assures aerodynamic regularity of the shape on all of the fins. The application of FIBERGLASS CLOTH and the ZEE-POXY FINISHING RESIN adds structural strength. The fiberglass is not a requirement but I added it to the build process to be consistent with the body tube finish described above. I cut the light weight fiberglass cloth to the basic shape of the fins. After a light coating of the resin on the plywood, I laid the cloth down and smoothed it out using a sponge brush. Then applied a light coat of resin over the cloth. Fiberglassing fins is a process that I don't normally do. So it is actually in keeping with the"experimental" aspect of this build. It's another part of the learning process. I'm glad that I remembered to use vinyl gloves because this is a messy job. I set the fin /tube section aside to cure. I will address the fillets and sanding of the fins next.

WI-ROC / WrE / 2018 / Fillets
 

Adding FILLETS to the FIN and BODY TUBE joint strengthens and adds a finished quality to any rocket. First, of course, SANDING the fins and body tube is necessary to prepare the surfaces and promote adhesion. I like to use EPOXY with MICRO-BALLOON FILLER for fillets. The MICRO-BALLOONS raise the viscosity of the epoxy and give it a spreadable quality. The combination of the FIBERGLASS applied to the fin and the EPOXY FILLETS should allow these fins to survive all but the hardest impact upon landing. A thin bead of epoxy is placed where the fin and air frame meet . It is then spread and smoothed with an appropriately curved tool. This can be the back of a disposable plastic spoon. In this case, a Popsicle stick was used because of the WI-ROC's relatively small fins. Ideally, the FILLETS should be symmetrical in shape and size and practically unnoticeable.

WI-ROC / WrE / 2018 / Finish 1
 

I am now at the FINISH Stage of the WI-ROC. What that means is I could theoretically fly this rocket this weekend. I've seen a number of rockets flown "naked".
Some rocketeers fly an unpainted model for test purposes. Some hate the finishing process so much that they would just as soon stop right here, leave the rocket at this stage, and not pay any attention to paint. But, for me the build time and effort is not even close to done. I've decided on a color scheme and livery that is one of my favorites. I've used it before on other rockets. Rather than blurting it out right now- I'm gonna just let it develop and show a few of the steps along the way.

After a good coat of GRAY PRIMER is applied and thoroughly dried (24-36 hours) SANDING and SHAPING are again a major part of this stage of production. I had to re-shape the top end of one of the fins leading edge. A little misplaced epoxy during the FILLET process has cured in the wrong place. In reality, the tiny bit of epoxy will not significantly affect the flight, but it doesn't look right, and now's the time to correct it. I used a couple of RAT TAIL FILES to make the adjustment.
I'm always surprised by how the PRIMER COAT brings out tons of surface flaws. No matter how smooth and cool it looks before priming the TRUTH comes out when everthing is in primer. My normal technique is:
medium sand/fill/prime, fine sand/prime, extra fine sand/final prime.
WI-ROC followed that routine.

I use RATTLE CAN SPRAY PAINT on almost all of my rockets. There's a LOT of debate about which paints are best for gloss, or smooth finish, or dryability etc. I have found that if surfaces and the paint itself is properly prepared, RUSTOLEUM 2X Brand delivers a high solids/high opacity finish. I have, and will again use other paint brands for Special Effects on a given rocket. But for the basic style of the WrE / WI-ROC / 2018 - Rustoleum 2X will work fine.

The WI-ROC is the WISCONSIN ROCKET. It's currently WInter in WIsconsin. I don't have to tell most WOOSHers that WI Winter can be very uncooperative when it comes to spray painting! Over the years I have experimented with different techniques to deal with some of the issues brought on by cold. One thing I almost always do (except in the HEAT of WI Summer) is WARM THE PAINT. I like to do this by using HOT WATER. Because the can will float, a few inches of hot water in the laundry tub provides a safe way to heat the paint within. Shake the can, put it directly under the HOT water coming right out of the tap, let if "soak" in the HOT water in the sink, shake (the hell outta) the can again. This step brings a lot of improvement to the function of the paints chemical characteristics. More on that some other time. Trust me on this one- if properly done, it works.

I put the FIRST COAT of Black on the left side fin surface and the payload/nose cone section.
This will serve asabase for subsequent masking. . . . TO BE CONTINUED

WI-ROC / WrE / 2018 / Finish 2
 

Ok So BLACK AND YELLOW is said to be the most visually recogmizable HIGH CONTRAST COMBINATION. As mentioned above the B/Y combination is one of my favorites. I've used it many times and because WI-ROC is a straight ahead simple design, I'm going with an established livery with a few variations on the theme.
The fins on the left side of WI-ROC were sprayed black (see above) and are first rough masked and then the tape is trimmed to yield 100% coverage.
I use Scotch Brand Blue Painters Tape for Delicate Surfaces #2080- readily available, thin paper stock, flexible, clean edges.
I warmed up the RUSTOLEUM 2X YELLOW with hot water, but this time using a bucket which works even better than a laundry sink. Also I like to use a spray can handle, especially for larger rockets. Rustoleum 2X Yellow incorporates a Cadmium sulfide based pigment. It is very light yellow with very high opacity and good permanence. I had no problem covering the black overspray on the body tube with a VERY LIGHT COAT of Yellow over the entire airframe. Using a handle yields a smooth stroke along the full length of the air frame, without finger fatigue from pressing the button manually for extended periods of time. It may sound wimpy but it's a handy tool that i recommend and I like the end results.
Today is Feb. 26, 2018 and it was 53 degrees F. That's as good as we can expect in WI-ROC World in WI-WINTER. What I never expected was that some how a LIVING FLY flew into the garage and landed on the wet paint! I know- what are the chances? Careful removal of the insect was successful . ...TO BE CONTINUED...

WI-ROC / WrE / 2018 / Finish 3
 

The lower YELLOW BOOSTER Section will need another coat of paint. Before spraying I take the shine off of gloss paint. In this case I'm using #0 STEEL WOOL.
The WI-ROC will need to have a dedicated altimeter. I chose the JOLLY LOGIC ALTIMETER 2.
It's a simple altimeter that provides lots of flight data and stores it for 100 flights. The battery is rechargable using USB plugs.
I also ordered a Jolly Logic mounting bracket. I made a plywood platform which is attached with epoxy and screws to the bottom end of the nosecone. The altimeter mount is attached to the plywood with wood screws. The JL2 snaps into the mount. I will probably secure the altimeter in placed with a zip tie. The payload section tube has 6 X 1/8 inch holes for ventilation. There are two vents on the top end about 4.5 inches down. There are 4 more on the lower end. They are evenly spaced around the tube about 4 inches up. This is probably over kill. If the altimeter's accuracy or flight characteristics are negatively effected by all of these little holes I will have to seal a few up.

I've been told that one should place vent holes a minimum of one body tube diameter below the nose cone in order to get accurate readings.
Rex

Wi ROC WOGO CONTEST FOR JUL 28 AND 29
 

To Mr Jay Rietz, and the WOOSH Membership at large:
I am pleased to announce that the Wi-Roc competition as proposed below has been unanimously approved by the WOOSH members present at the February 28, 2018 club meeting. Let the game(s) begin.

Thank you
Walt Evans
WOOSH Veep
WI-Roc Enthusiast

Jay Rietz <jay.rietz@gmail.com> wrote:

In commemeration of the 1996 establishment of WOOSH, (drum roll goes here)

A CONTEST.

COMPETITION DATE July 28 and 29
At the RI BONG STATE RECREATION AREA


WI-Roc Altimeter 1996' Mean Sea Level (MSL) With Out Going Over (WOGO)

MULTI ROUND Event (MRE)


Rocket shall be a WI Roc built from a kit sold my LOC Precision of Plymouth Wisconsin.

https://www.locprecision.com/product/wi-roc/

The original design look and profile (ODLAP) will be maintained. Fin configuration (FC) will not be altered. Trivial design modifications (TDM) common to launch lug and rail button choices, the addition of altimeter bays, payload (think about weight tuning for altitude trim) bays and motor retainers are anticipated and encouraged. Finished rocket overall length shall be between 52 and 57 inches. Note the WI Roc has a design length of 54 inches.


Scores will be recorded by the Contest Director (CD) recording the reported altitude of the flyers on-board altimeter (OBA) immediately after return of the rocket to the launch area. Target altitude (TA) shall be at or below 1996 feet MSL. Bong launch area Field Elevation is 804 (amended....jcr) feet MSL. We will consider all nose tips to be starting from a point 4 feet above the field...so your rocket nose is at 808 feet MSL sitting on the launch pad. You will need to gain 1188 feet (thats what your altimeter will record) in order to achieve the best possible altitude of 1996 MSL. Other altimeters, GPS for instance, are welcome to participate.



This is a WISCONSIN Rocket event, so you can fly til the cows come home (TTCCH).

You'll be judged by your best score. Go Over? It is a simple DQ'd flight and you can keep on trying.

Any unsafe flight or act is DQ'd at CD discrection.


CONTEST DIRECTOR Jay Rietz NAR 65259 L2.

Flyers need be present only one of two day.

FABULOUS Trophys for 1st , 2nd, 3rd as well as Best Of Show crowd vote.

The Official Rules and Glossary of Terms
 

:confused: Will there be a written test? :eek:
-Asking for a friend

A couple of questions from a relative newbie to high power -

1) The "Nylo-Glass" coating you put on the body and fins, is that necessary for a level one flight? Wondering if that was personal preference, done for future level 2 flights, or a "do it or it will fall apart" type of thing.

2) I bought a parachute baffle and want to install it on this rocket. How much distance between the end of the motor tube and the lower end of the baffle should there be?

3) I also got rail buttons for this rocket. Where is the best place to install them? Into the body tube where the bulkheads are?

4) Lastly, I plan on setting mine up like others on this thread have done, as in the smaller section being the payload section, and the rocket splitting for parachute deployment at that coupling, not a the nose cone. I see you used nylon screws to keep everything together in flight, will the plastic removable rivets work? I see you also screwed the tube coupling to the payload bay instead of gluing it, is that so you can remove that coupling and install your E-bay?

Thanks! Your rocket looks great, and is a LOT farther than mine! :-)

1) not needed for a level 1 cert flight, or for that matter most flying. while it does add some durability for transport and handling it will not save the rocket if it lawn darts into mud.

2)I would first consider how much room the recovery system needs (chute, shock cord, eye bolts etc.) and mount it leaving enough room for the recovery Plus space for the coupler shoulder and evebolt (iirc about 3" for shoulder and eye bolt), this will keep the chute from sliding and changing the cg.

3) typical install is into the aft centering ring, forward button in a location that will not snag the chute or shock cord, forward centering ring usually works.

4)probably yes to both. hth,
Rex

Just to expand on RexR's answer:

3/ I like to put the upper button somewhere close to the CG, if possible.

4/ The small nylon screws are shear pins and are meant to break at ejection, allowing the parts to separate. Nylon rivets are for holding things together at ejection so the parts do not separate.

Well, just as a follow up, I got the rail mounts attached, got it finished, and used it to get my Level 1 Cert at Bong in July. I'm happy about that and about how it turned out, thanks for your help!