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-   -   Saturn 1B Build Project (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=3773)

Mark II 09-08-2008 09:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle3
I'm building mine modular as well. I like to cut down as much masking as possible. Fewer opportunities to mess up. BTW - instead of masking the black tank tubes for the white stripes has anyone used white trim monokote for the stripe?

Would it be opaque enough?

Mark \\.

chanstevens 09-08-2008 09:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle3
I'm building mine modular as well. I like to cut down as much masking as possible. Fewer opportunities to mess up. BTW - instead of masking the black tank tubes for the white stripes has anyone used white trim monokote for the stripe?


I'm probably MUCH too picky about it, but I'd have heartburn with that for two reasons:

1--There would be a noticeable seam/ridge, more so than if you'd just painted and then sanded down a bit with 900 grit.

b--You'd never match whatever white paint is used elsewhere, leaving two different whites on the model. Difference in gloss can be negated through a clearcoat, but that won't help resolve a tint problem.

--Chan Stevens

barone 09-08-2008 10:17 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I was thinking about doing the modular route but then I started thinking about filling gaps in parts and trying to make that look good after the parts were already painted and decided "Oh well, guess I'll do a lot of masking". By the way....I've got this CM wrap that might help detailing the CM section. Just use it along with the pictures of the CM that Chan provided and you'll be able to see where the silver goes. I've provided a rule so you can get the scale right.

Royatl 09-08-2008 10:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by barone
I was thinking about doing the modular route but then I started thinking about filling gaps in parts and trying to make that look good after the parts were already painted and decided "Oh well, guess I'll do a lot of masking". By the way....I've got this CM wrap that might help detailing the CM section. Just use it along with the pictures of the CM that Chan provided and you'll be able to see where the silver goes. I've provided a rule so you can get the scale right.



note that the rule is scrunched a bit just after 5.5 inches. Don't know if that was in the original or if it also affected the wrap itself. I guess the easy way to check is to make sure the wrap is exactly 7.0".

barone 09-08-2008 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
note that the rule is scrunched a bit just after 5.5 inches. Don't know if that was in the original or if it also affected the wrap itself. I guess the easy way to check is to make sure the wrap is exactly 7.0".

Well, if you print it out and the printed distance between the inch marks isn't an inch, it's not printed to scale........ :D

dwmzmm 09-08-2008 11:41 PM

Carl, is there a way you can check the shipping status of the Saturn 1-B you sent me? As of
today (Monday, September 8, 2008) I still haven't received mine. When I try to check the
status myself, all I get is the electronic notification that the package was shipped on September 2, 2008. With the early October deadline approaching, I'm going to be hard
pressed to do a quality job on short notice. I can "cut" some of the finishing work by using
some monokote I have.

If there's anything you can find out, I'd appreciate it.

dwmzmm 09-09-2008 07:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwmzmm
Carl, is there a way you can check the shipping status of the Saturn 1-B you sent me? As of
today (Monday, September 8, 2008) I still haven't received mine. When I try to check the
status myself, all I get is the electronic notification that the package was shipped on September 2, 2008. With the early October deadline approaching, I'm going to be hard
pressed to do a quality job on short notice. I can "cut" some of the finishing work by using
some monokote I have.

If there's anything you can find out, I'd appreciate it.



Nevermind, Carl. It came in today! Maybe if Hurricane Ike heads this way, it might give
me some extra time to work on the build. Thanks!

chanstevens 09-10-2008 08:45 PM

Step 50 tip
 
1 Attachment(s)
For anyone who has as much fun as I do trying to place (4) different latch pads on the transition exactly 1.2" forward of the edge, and spaced exactly 1/4th of the way around/lined up with the POS lines, I've come up with a wrap-around shroud pattern that can be used to mark the base points. Note that the bottom is probably a tiny bit undersized--on mine it was maybe 1/16" short and so for the "X" that's formed at the joint, I sort of had to split the distance. For the other 3 points, just poke a hole in this wrap, and use a pencil or sharpie to mark that point on the shroud. Works best if you get this BEFORE forming the shroud, but I have to admit I've never managed to work that efficiently or that far ahead. I typically just mark my already formed and painted transition and tack on the pads late in the game.

--Chan Stevens

barone 09-10-2008 10:16 PM

Thanks Chan. I was planning on marking before I cut out but hadn't got that far yet. Just now putting the fins together and filling gaps between the fuel tanks and the tank shroud.

Mark II 09-10-2008 10:47 PM

Got the kit today, so now I can finally get started. Man, that's a big box! :eek: :D

Mark \\.

dwmzmm 09-10-2008 10:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
Got the kit today, so now I can finally get started. Man, that's a big box! :eek: :D

Mark \\.


That's what I thought, too, when I saw the box yesterday. I assume we're suppose to use
it to send the completed model?!

chanstevens 09-11-2008 07:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by barone
Thanks Chan. I was planning on marking before I cut out but hadn't got that far yet. Just now putting the fins together and filling gaps between the fuel tanks and the tank shroud.


I tried that once on the second one I'd built, but still had issues with spacing them 1/4 of the way around. I found the best method was simply to photocopy the shroud, cut it out, fold it into fourths, then pencil in the crease lines from the folds. Mark each line 1.2" up from the aft end, and you're good to go. Just make sure you do that on a copy, not on the original, as those crease lines on the actual shroud could be a little unsightly ;) .

dwmzmm 09-11-2008 06:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle3
I'm building mine modular as well. I like to cut down as much masking as possible. Fewer opportunities to mess up. BTW - instead of masking the black tank tubes for the white stripes has anyone used white trim monokote for the stripe?


Is white trim monokote available somewhere? I was hoping BMS would have some, but
they don't.

chanstevens 09-11-2008 08:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwmzmm
Is white trim monokote available somewhere? I was hoping BMS would have some, but
they don't.


sigmfg.com. Look under building supplies, coverings.

dwmzmm 09-11-2008 11:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanstevens
sigmfg.com. Look under building supplies, coverings.


Wow, thanks! I see a lot of stuff I can use on their website. For model rockets, of course.

Royatl 09-12-2008 12:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwmzmm
Wow, thanks! I see a lot of stuff I can use on their website. For model rockets, of course.


The OTHER thing I remember most about the old days, besides getting catalogs from Estes and Centuri, was getting the BIG Sig Catalog, with Hazel Sigafoose on the cover with her aerobatic bipe, similar to the one that killed her husband a few years later (she's still going strong at 86, racing Corvettes!).

Anyway, that catalog had all sorts of things that I'd never heard of. Stuff that our hobby section of the five and dime, or the back of the tobacco shop hobby section would never dream of carrying.

CPMcGraw 09-14-2008 05:47 PM

Build update...

Finally got all of the tubes first-primed and first-sanded today. Spirals look nearly filled, so a second prime and sand session should be all that it needs. Hopefully, all of the wraps should be applied by Wednesday.

The fins are proving to be a real bear... :(

CPMcGraw 09-14-2008 05:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
The OTHER thing I remember most about the old days, besides getting catalogs from Estes and Centuri, was getting the BIG Sig Catalog, with Hazel Sigafoose on the cover with her aerobatic bipe, similar to the one that killed her husband a few years later (she's still going strong at 86, racing Corvettes!)...


Check this out:

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com...ad.php?t=104428

chanstevens 09-17-2008 07:44 PM

Well, I was making great progress until we got hit with the "dry hurricane" remnants of Ike. Nothing like what Galveston and Houston got, but over 90% of us in CIncinnati area lost power Sunday, and as of noon Wednesday, over half are still waiting for it to be restored. I used to be a Home Depot supplier, and we had to do annual "hurricane drills" proving we could get vital supplies to any huricane hit city in under 24 hours. Naturally, they were the first store I went to for stuff, and they were shut down for lack of power.

Masking by candlelight absolutely [inhales deeply]. I pulled off the tape yesterday morning to discover that I painted the 0.675" black band above the wrap (onto the plain white tube) instead of from the top of the wrap down/aft. D'oh!

Hopefully they'll have us back up within te next day or so, though they still claim many will be into the weekend, if then, before getting power back.

barone 09-17-2008 08:20 PM

Well, you're further along than I am and I don't have a hurricane to contend with.

Finished building the fins and stacking out. Still filling gaps on the tube shroud....fill, sand, fill. LEM shroud goes on tonight. I think I'm going to prime and sand the stack once more before applying the wraps to make sure I've got all the gaps filled. Don't want to add primer after I get the wraps on and destroy the detail.

Anyone put the capsule together yet?

dwmzmm 09-17-2008 08:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by barone
Well, you're further along than I am and I don't have a hurricane to contend with.

Finished building the fins and stacking out. Still filling gaps on the tube shroud....fill, sand, fill. LEM shroud goes on tonight. I think I'm going to prime and sand the stack once more before applying the wraps to make sure I've got all the gaps filled. Don't want to add primer after I get the wraps on and destroy the detail.

Anyone put the capsule together yet?


I've only viewed the DVD of the capsule and studied the instructions today; in a few minutes
I'm going to get started on the build. Wanted to see how I can construct the model in modules (and prepaint certain portions before final assembly, like the Centuri Saturn 1-B,
which made the finished product a lot easier and better). Looks like it'll be a challenge, but
I'm going to do what I can. The arrival/passing of Ike over the weekend really set me back
big time, so I'm pretty much behind anyhow you look at it.

I can feel for chanstevens, as many of the electrical repair crew from Ohio headed down to
southeast Texas after Ike did its damage to assist CenterPoint Energy in the recovery
efforts. This had already been contracted long before Ike hit, as we're getting help (so they
say) from all over to help speed things up. They've said that the Houston metro area has
the largest electrical grid in the US. We got our power back several days ago (after being out for nearly three days); but over 60% of Houston still doesn't have power as of now. Many may not be back on line until next week.

barone 09-17-2008 08:54 PM

My sister called today. She just got her power back and my mother and brother haven't had power since Sunday. They live between Dayton and Columbus Ohio.... :(

barone 09-17-2008 09:40 PM

Step 26 Build Tip
 
There's a gap between the fuel tank body tubes. Put two pieces of sandpaper together so the sand is facing eachother and then slide them between the tank tubes. Fold the pieces back across the top of the two tanks, exposing the sand. Slide the fairing support between the two pieces of sandpaper. The resulting bevel should closely match the gap between the tank tubes. Test fit often to ensure you don't remove too much balsa.

dwmzmm 09-19-2008 02:12 PM

Finally got started on the build of mine (well, the one I received :( ) and having some real
fun! Get's my mind off of the disasterous events we had in our area over the past week. Since our school doesn't start until Tuesday, I'll have some time to really get to work and
make progress. Will be working on the eight fuel tanks today and the fin construction so I
can get that out of the way. Will be using my vintage Centuri Saturn 1-B as a reference point
while working on this 1/70 scale model.

barone 09-19-2008 06:26 PM

Got your email.....just keep the mystery going don't you???? ;)

dwmzmm 09-20-2008 12:24 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Hey all, this evening (Friday, September 19th) while working on the Saturn 1-B, I was studying my old Centuri model and noticed that the SEMROC decal sheet is missing the
vertical motion markings that's located on the interstage adapter next to the black roll
pattern. I've included a photo I took of the Centuri model with the marking in question
circled so you guys can keep it in mind when you finish yours. I plan to use the black
monokote adhesive to do the job.

And, sorry for the cluttered look in the background of my work table. Things have been
really hectic here lately, so I'm sure you all can understand (will in no way diminish the
quality of my build). If you can look a little behind the Centuri model, on the table, you
can see four of the eight fuel tanks have been attached to the assembly. I used black
monokote for those tanks. Came out looking really good.

More later.

Pyro Pro 09-22-2008 02:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
The files Chan provided are online for a month at:

http://www.soarrocketry.org/saturn/

Enjoy.


Just wondering, is this link working for anyone else? I keep getting a "Server Error in '/' Application" message.

Royatl 09-22-2008 02:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro Pro
Just wondering, is this link working for anyone else? I keep getting a "Server Error in '/' Application" message.



I just used it. But that's not to say that occasionally it might be down briefly as I do some experimentation with it.

right now on internet explorer it will give a couple of javascript errors ("'Sys' is undefined"). Just click "no".

Royatl 09-22-2008 02:45 PM

Ah, I see. It is blowing up under Firefox. I think I know what that's about.

yep. put in some browser caps code to deal with an issue with the google maps API.

It apparently barfed.

Should be good to go now.

Pyro Pro 09-22-2008 02:49 PM

Aha! That was it. Thanks.

Looks like it works with Google Chrome as well.

Royatl 09-22-2008 02:52 PM

yea, that's what I've been using, and is why I missed the javascript error for awhile too. Chrome either doesn't care, or they just haven't put the reporting code in yet.

dwmzmm 09-22-2008 02:53 PM

Worked great for me; I've already have it saved to my hard drive and available on my
desktop.

BTW, does anyone know for certain if the Service Module of the Apollo - 7 actually had an
EVA light? The drawings in those links shows an EVA light but that puzzles me, as there was
no EVA planned (nor no LM) that would require an EVA light. I will need to know an definitive
answer in about a week before I start working on the SM detailing.

chanstevens 09-23-2008 08:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwmzmm
Worked great for me; I've already have it saved to my hard drive and available on my
desktop.

BTW, does anyone know for certain if the Service Module of the Apollo - 7 actually had an
EVA light? The drawings in those links shows an EVA light but that puzzles me, as there was
no EVA planned (nor no LM) that would require an EVA light. I will need to know an definitive
answer in about a week before I start working on the SM detailing.


Are you referring to the Mark Piatowski "drawings"? If so, they are NOT specific to that mission, but are more of a generic series of wonderful renderings showing some of the colors and details of the 1b. They are included in the Apogee kit documentation as finishing guidelines, and that kit supports a number of different mission configurations.

The main reason I included them is because, with no offense to the outstanding Semroc instructions, the finishing specs and illustrations are a bit thin and maybe even a bit inaccurate depending on mission choice. The antenna panels, for example, should be yellow, not silver. The service module has a LOT of silver, not solid white. These drawings, which are more like artists renderings, do a pretty good job of showing how to try to finish a typical Saturn, not necessarily Apollo-7.

As I looked over them today, I did notice one major thing missing which I'll try to correct--in the Apogee instructions, each of them show up with a label indicating the position number/view angle. The online folder does not indicate this. I think it would be pretty important to know which side of the rocket you're looking at...

--Chan Stevens

chanstevens 09-23-2008 05:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kurtschachner
OK, I don't have the Saturn 1b wrap. I remember now, the guy who had one said he'd send it to me, but that was about 10 years ago and it never happened. He kept telling me to use the pattern in ROTW as it was much more accurate. That however, would be hard to translate into a wrap due to the thin horizontal sections.

BUT, now that Rustee found one in a hobby shop it shouldn't be a problem. I asked him to scan all the stuff. I hope he does.


Lacking a wrap scan for any/all of us, does anyone have an unbuilt Apogee 1b kit? There's a raised ink/embossed wrap in there for the service module that would at least be a very good masking guide if scanned. I inquired today about buying a few as replacement parts, and Tim turned me down. Turns out he spent a fortune to tool that, and needs to sell kits to recoup the cost. If he sold 'em off as spare parts to folks who go ahead and build someone else's kit (Estes, Semroc, etc.) he'd never make enough margin to cover the wrap tooling cost. Makes sense to me, but I would have hoped for this project he'd bend on that policy :( .

Royatl 09-23-2008 05:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanstevens
Lacking a wrap scan for any/all of us, does anyone have an unbuilt Apogee 1b kit? There's a raised ink/embossed wrap in there for the service module that would at least be a very good masking guide if scanned.



I'll get mine out tonight. I know I've opened the Saturn V kit, but not sure if I've ever opened the 1B!

barone 09-23-2008 06:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanstevens
Lacking a wrap scan for any/all of us, does anyone have an unbuilt Apogee 1b kit? There's a raised ink/embossed wrap in there for the service module that would at least be a very good masking guide if scanned. I inquired today about buying a few as replacement parts, and Tim turned me down. Turns out he spent a fortune to tool that, and needs to sell kits to recoup the cost. If he sold 'em off as spare parts to folks who go ahead and build someone else's kit (Estes, Semroc, etc.) he'd never make enough margin to cover the wrap tooling cost. Makes sense to me, but I would have hoped for this project he'd bend on that policy :( .

Chan,

Go back earlier in this thread. I posted a .tif of it.....Post #83 (I guess I'm just posting to myself :( )

CPMcGraw 09-23-2008 08:25 PM

As I started test-fitting the wraps around the SIV-B tube on both my project kit and on the one I bought about a year ago, I found one of my #4 wraps was incorrectly sized. It's slightly long, and the corrugations progressively get out of alignment. The #3 wraps and the remaining #4 wrap seem to be fine, that is to say, their corrugations line up. I suspect the wrap that is long is from my older kit, as I have not heard anyone on this thread mentioning this problem. Both of my #5 wraps line up with the #3 wraps, so it's just the one #4 that's at issue.

Got the wraps on the lower S-1B skirts, and the spacer strips on all 16 of the tanks. Final white coats on these tomorrow. Masking and black paint to come on Thursday.

Don't know which is more difficult - building the fins, or applying the wraps...

dwmzmm 09-23-2008 09:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
As I started test-fitting the wraps around the SIV-B tube on both my project kit and on the one I bought about a year ago, I found one of my #4 wraps was incorrectly sized. It's slightly long, and the corrugations progressively get out of alignment. The #3 wraps and the remaining #4 wrap seem to be fine, that is to say, their corrugations line up. I suspect the wrap that is long is from my older kit, as I have not heard anyone on this thread mentioning this problem. Both of my #5 wraps line up with the #3 wraps, so it's just the one #4 that's at issue.

Got the wraps on the lower S-1B skirts, and the spacer strips on all 16 of the tanks. Final white coats on these tomorrow. Masking and black paint to come on Thursday.

Don't know which is more difficult - building the fins, or applying the wraps...


Just finished putting on the wraps a few minutes ago; all of them fit ok, although I had to make some small trims to the two lowest wraps for the fin can (were a bit too big). The
wraps to the main body section went on pretty good, and the corrugations seem to line
up ok. I really wanted to try using contact cement to apply the wraps (much like the Centuri kit), but "chickened" out as it allows no room for errors. Using white glue makes
the surface a bit uneven, but I suspect that will be taken care of when the base coat of
white paint goes on.

Tomorrow I'll get started on the fin construction; should be interesting and fun!!

chanstevens 09-24-2008 06:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by barone
Chan,

Go back earlier in this thread. I posted a .tif of it.....Post #83 (I guess I'm just posting to myself :( )


Was that from an Apogee kit or one of the early Estes/Centuri's?

barone 09-24-2008 07:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanstevens
Was that from an Apogee kit or one of the early Estes/Centuri's?

That's from the Apogee kit (I haven't started building it yet). The file name is how I have it saved on my computer. Sorry for the confusion.


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