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-   -   Saturn 1B Build Project (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=3773)

chanstevens 09-24-2008 09:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanstevens
Are you referring to the Mark Piatowski "drawings"? If so, they are NOT specific to that mission, but are more of a generic series of wonderful renderings showing some of the colors and details of the 1b. They are included in the Apogee kit documentation as finishing guidelines, and that kit supports a number of different mission configurations.

The main reason I included them is because, with no offense to the outstanding Semroc instructions, the finishing specs and illustrations are a bit thin and maybe even a bit inaccurate depending on mission choice. The antenna panels, for example, should be yellow, not silver. The service module has a LOT of silver, not solid white. These drawings, which are more like artists renderings, do a pretty good job of showing how to try to finish a typical Saturn, not necessarily Apollo-7.

As I looked over them today, I did notice one major thing missing which I'll try to correct--in the Apogee instructions, each of them show up with a label indicating the position number/view angle. The online folder does not indicate this. I think it would be pretty important to know which side of the rocket you're looking at...

--Chan Stevens


I just compared the "written" (on CD/video) directions to the Piatowski drawings, and thought the Piatowski were what were in the instructions to build from. Turns out they are not, and there are a set of MUCH BETTER photo-like drawings of each of the main modules shown from position I through IIII for painting, detailing, etc. I have zipped up those and sent them to Roy (can't do the FTP thing from work, still have power/cable issues at home). If anyone wants these sooner, email me at chanstevens at gmail dot com and I'll shoot a copy directly (about 750k). These are excellent renderings, and while they don't do the hard work of masking and painting for you, they at least make figuring out what/where to mask go much more smoothly.

--Chan Stevens

Royatl 09-24-2008 10:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanstevens
I just compared the "written" (on CD/video) directions to the Piatowski drawings, and thought the Piatowski were what were in the instructions to build from. Turns out they are not, and there are a set of MUCH BETTER photo-like drawings of each of the main modules shown from position I through IIII for painting, detailing, etc. I have zipped up those and sent them to Roy (can't do the FTP thing from work, still have power/cable issues at home). If anyone wants these sooner, email me at chanstevens at gmail dot com and I'll shoot a copy directly (about 750k). These are excellent renderings, and while they don't do the hard work of masking and painting for you, they at least make figuring out what/where to mask go much more smoothly.

--Chan Stevens


They are up now.

http://www.soarrocketry.org/saturn

CPMcGraw 09-24-2008 11:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwmzmm
Just finished putting on the wraps a few minutes ago; all of them fit ok, although I had to make some small trims to the two lowest wraps for the fin can (were a bit too big). The
wraps to the main body section went on pretty good, and the corrugations seem to line
up ok. I really wanted to try using contact cement to apply the wraps (much like the Centuri kit), but "chickened" out as it allows no room for errors. Using white glue makes
the surface a bit uneven, but I suspect that will be taken care of when the base coat of
white paint goes on.

Tomorrow I'll get started on the fin construction; should be interesting and fun!!


I used 3M-90 on the skirt, almost wished I hadn't. The adhesive came out the nozzle looking more like "silly string" than a spray...

I used yellow glue on the LJ-II wraps, and lost much of the embossing details when the moisture soaked into the paper; I didn't want to have that happen this time. After getting the wraps onto the skirt, I sealed the joint edges with thin CA, so they shouldn't come back up.

chanstevens 09-25-2008 07:19 AM

SOme general guidelines I've used over the years on glues that pertain to this project in particular:

Paper/cardstock shrouds--white glue only. Yellow is too brittle/shrinks. Thin layer only, and by thin I mean try to wipe it all off with your finger (multiple passes). What's left is just enough to grip it. I've also tried rubber cement, very forgiving, but tends not to work well on stiffer materials.

Paper wraps (like this Saturn)--the wipe-it-all-off white glue approach tends not to work, as most dries before you can get it aligned and applied. 3M spray adhesive, if done very carefully to the entire back of the wrap can work well, but zero chance to realign/tweak. I'm sort of on the fence--if I'm cocky, I'll go with 3M, otherwise I use the white glue, but have to apply in smaller sections as I go along.

Styrene wraps (other Saturns)--tape the end of the wrap in place first, then wick thin CA along the seams. Not all CA's are equal (see my extensive comment on EMRR's Apogee Saturn V review where I tested something like 5 different brands).

Plastic detail parts (command module)--forget CA's and go straight to the brush-on liquid plastic model cement. It's thin--like water. Apply very sparingly to each surface. I've found that this stuff is pretty strong and absolutely invisible. If you look at my towers, you'd think I employed nanobots to weld them.

About the only place I'll use yellow glue is on wood to wood joints that I'm in a bit of a hurry for, such as some of the fiberboard details. Built-up fins? White glue is the only way to go--no shrink, forgiving while you tug the skins into proper position.

--Chan Stevens

barone 09-25-2008 07:31 AM

Actually, I've had pretty good luck with the 3M-77 spray adhesive. Just make sure you're lined up on the vertical line and it goes on and WON'T come off. Don't even need to CA the seams. :D

Eagle3 09-25-2008 11:26 AM

NOTICE - ATTENTION - HEY YOU!!!!

;) At the request of Carl, I am creating a separate forum just for the Saturn 1b build. This forum is private and will include SVDT members and non-SVDT members. Please remember not to mention, reference, infer, or acknowledge the existence of SVDT and this private folder.

You will be able to see the new forum as a sub to the Semroc forum as soon as you're added.

Buzz

Carl@Semroc 09-25-2008 11:41 AM

Since we have added about 10 or so builders to the Saturn 1B build that were not SVDT members and those that are building the Saturns are under a separate NDA as a part of the build, this discussion will be moved so all the builders can see these critical discussions.

If anyone has the time to cull comments/tips/etc from this thread and re-post them to the new thread for all the builders, it would be greatly appreciated!

For the remaining SVDT members, this is much of a mystery now, but when it is all revealed in the near future, you will understand why we had to do it this way.

Ltvscout 09-25-2008 11:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle3
You will be able to see the new forum as a sub to the Semroc forum as soon as you're added.

Actually, it's under the Work Bench forum and is called Saturn 1B Celebration. ;)

Eagle3 09-25-2008 12:00 PM

Correct. When I first set it up a SVDT member could see it fine, but hte non-svdt test user could not. Rather than monkey with the Semroc forum permissions I just moved it out.

Ltvscout 09-25-2008 12:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle3
Correct. When I first set it up a SVDT member could see it fine, but hte non-svdt test user could not. Rather than monkey with the Semroc forum permissions I just moved it out.

I believe I have all of the permission issues fixed for the S1B forum.

Buzz, when you have time could you copy the messages from this thread that started with the build over to the 1B forum?


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