Computer problem

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

We had a tree take out a wire in the neighborhood the other night and our power was out for 16.5 hours. When it came back on i tried to restart my computer, but I get nothing. I had a surge protector hooked up, but would a power failure cause a surge or act the same way? I opened it up tonight and had a look inside because I was told that anything fried would look fried, but everything looked okay to my untrained eyes. If any of you computer genius types can suggest anything, I'd be grateful for any help. :confused:

[ghrocketman]

It could have popped either your power supply or the motherboard....surge protectors are very limited in what spikes they can prevent....most of them will not protect against major surges.
Test the power supply output to the motherboard with a DMM....if the output of the supply is nominal, you have bad news !
Semi-conductors and other components on the motherboard (microprocessor, etc.) can be totally destroyed internally without physically looking "destroyed". Things that look "fried" definitely are, but electrical chips do not always show visible physical signs when they are wrecked.
Believe me not all ruined electronics show physical signs; I'm an electrical engineer that deals with microprocessor equipped automotive computer modules on a daily basis. Some have to be X-rayed to even determine failure causes.

[barone]

We had a tree take out a wire in the neighborhood the other night and our power was out for 16.5 hours. When it came back on i tried to restart my computer, but I get nothing. I had a surge protector hooked up, but would a power failure cause a surge or act the same way? I opened it up tonight and had a look inside because I was told that anything fried would look fried, but everything looked okay to my untrained eyes. If any of you computer genius types can suggest anything, I'd be grateful for any help. :confused:Bill,

I know this is going to sound lame but......does your surge protector have a reset button? If so, try to rest it. If not, try to hook your computer straight to a wall outlet. Sometimes a surge protector will burn out trying to protect your equipment.

[tbzep]

We had a tree take out a wire in the neighborhood the other night and our power was out for 16.5 hours. When it came back on i tried to restart my computer, but I get nothing. I had a surge protector hooked up, but would a power failure cause a surge or act the same way? I opened it up tonight and had a look inside because I was told that anything fried would look fried, but everything looked okay to my untrained eyes. If any of you computer genius types can suggest anything, I'd be grateful for any help. :confused:

It's according to what happened with the power line. If the primary (7,200v around here) lands on your service line, you'll get a huge surge and fire will jump out of every outlet. I fought a fire a few years ago when an ice storm caused this. :eek: Don't worry, it didn't happen to you or you'd be typing from a hotel. ;)

It's possible that you had a low voltage situation just before the power went out too. Sometimes computers will get goofy when you have "brown out" conditions, but it's usually just a continuous reboot situation until the voltage comes back up.

You won't always see fried components when looking in the computer. Sometimes the power supply will die and you can't see inside it unless you take it apart. If you get absolutely nothing happening, it is often the power supply. Some have glass fuses in them that you could replace, others don't.

Look closely at all the capacitors on the motherboard and see if any are swelled or seeping at the top. Usually a bad cap on the board will still let a fan spin for a second or two, but sometimes nothing will happen.

If it's just a fried CPU or stick of RAM, the fans usually spin up, so I'd start by skipping the surge surpressor and make sure nothing's wrong with it by plugging straight into the wall. Then I'd dig out a power supply from an old computer (cause I have a bunch of them laying around) and see if the PS is dead. I'd then get out the .45 and start shooting stuff if it still doesn't work. ;)

[ghrocketman]

Don,
Great point....try to isolate the "simple" fixes first....often times the item designed to protect something is a weaker link than the actual device you are protecting. Some surge protectors even have replaceable fuses in them....if so check that too.
Does the outlet to the computer/surge protector have power ?
Could the breaker be tripped ?

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

No, I've tried all of those "quick fixes". Our surge protector has a fuse, but everything else works. I also tried plugging directly into the wall. I figured that having something "look" fried was a longshot, but one of the IP guys that works with my wife suggested it. He also said to look for a reset button, but I couldn't find anything. I'm thinking that the power supply might be the culprit.
Odd. The computer is the only thing on that outlet that doesn't work. :(
Thanks for the suggestions. If you have miracle cures or space age band-aids, I'm listening. ;)

[CPMcGraw]

We had a tree take out a wire in the neighborhood the other night and our power was out for 16.5 hours. When it came back on i tried to restart my computer, but I get nothing. I had a surge protector hooked up, but would a power failure cause a surge or act the same way? I opened it up tonight and had a look inside because I was told that anything fried would look fried, but everything looked okay to my untrained eyes. If any of you computer genius types can suggest anything, I'd be grateful for any help. :confused:

You need to replace that computer's power supply. They also have a fuse inside that can blow out from a surge. Sounds like it took a hit when the line went down suddenly. I've had to deal with this more than once. Surge suppressor strips are only good one time; after the device takes the hit, it's no longer going to protect you. Your best protection (short of not having it plugged in at all, useless as that is...) is to get yourself a battery back-up device. They're cheaper than a new PC, far better than any surge strip, and will save your bacon in such moments. I'm partial to the APC brand, but the other brands are likely just as usable. For the replacement PC supply, go with Antec for less than 600W, and Power PC & Cooling for more than that.

[falingtrea]

You can also buy surge protectors with status circuitry built in so that you can see whether the surge protector has has been fried.

Most UPS systems I have seen are just relay switched so they really don't have any better isolation than a surge protector. They will protect better against secondary surges because they typically have hysteresis in the control circuitry that waits for a time period before switching after power comes back up. But protection depends on the isolation of the relay. If the relay is has only 600V isolation, and you get a 1kV surge, the UPS won't help either.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Took it to the local Geek Squad on Saturday night. Power supply, dead and gone. All info on the computer, just where I left it. :cool:

[JRThro]

Took it to the local Geek Squad on Saturday night. Power supply, dead and gone. All info on the computer, just where I left it. :cool:
Woohoo! That's good news!

[ghrocketman]

Really good news !
The last time that happened to my computer it was the motherboard.
The solution to that was a new Dell 2.66 GHz computer :D

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Even better, I called Dell today to order the replacement, expecting in my ignorance to pay around $140 or so for this incredibly important computer part. Wrong-o. $26. Should be here around the weekend. I was also told by the Geek Squad guy that whoever set up my computer did a great job because everything he could see was high-end stuff. I had one of the guys that I worked with help with the selection when I ordered it. He asked me questions about what I planned to use it for, made sure I got everything I needed, nothing I didn't, and plenty of power and memory to run it all. Nice to know someone that you can trust in a situation like that. (I gave this guy good advice on women, believe it or not.)
Now I'm just jonesin' because I have a camera-full of pics, but no way to download them. I should have a pretty impressive photo session when I get back up and running. Most of my recent builds are flightworthy, so much so that I started the D.O.M. Argus II project today. I bought the cone from Carl a couple of weeks ago when I bought the UFO Invader cones. With any luck, this Saturday I'll launch the UFO Invader, Maxi-Icarus, Citation Patriot, Sunward Galactic Wave, Goonybird Sky Shriek, Sunward Gravity Rider, PDR USS Atlantis, Semroc SLS Lil Hustler, and more that don't come to mind at the moment. Man, I can't wait. :o

[tbzep]

When you get the new power supply, tell me what brand it is and we will see if the Geek Squad is blowing smoke up your.....uh...you know what.

I've had my fill of generic power supplies which have a real hard time keeping their 5v and 3.3v rails anywhere close to spec while under load. I finally broke down and started buying Antec and Enermax (whichever was on sale at the time) and it has made a huge difference in reliability.

[CPMcGraw]

When you get the new power supply, tell me what brand it is and we will see if the Geek Squad is blowing smoke up your.....uh...you know what.

I've had my fill of generic power supplies which have a real hard time keeping their 5v and 3.3v rails anywhere close to spec while under load. I finally broke down and started buying Antec and Enermax (whichever was on sale at the time) and it has made a huge difference in reliability.

Last time I looked in our local BestBuy, Antec was the brand they've been carrying for power supplies and cases. I haven't seen any others for these parts, though that may just be a local store issue...

[JRThro]

When you get the new power supply, tell me what brand it is and we will see if the Geek Squad is blowing smoke up your.....uh...you know what.

I've had my fill of generic power supplies which have a real hard time keeping their 5v and 3.3v rails anywhere close to spec while under load. I finally broke down and started buying Antec and Enermax (whichever was on sale at the time) and it has made a huge difference in reliability.
It's a $26 power supply from Dell. Bill could install the new one himself, really, or his friend could for sure.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

It's a $26 power supply from Dell. Bill could install the new one himself, really, or his friend could for sure.


Yeah, that's what I need. Me under the hood of a computer that cost more than my first two cars combined. :rolleyes:
The power supply was on my doorstep when I woke up this afternoon. Less than 24 hours after I ordered it. I'm impressed! :eek:

[tbzep]

It's a $26 power supply from Dell. Bill could install the new one himself, really, or his friend could for sure.

Oops....I wasn't paying attention when he noted it was a Dell part. I was curious to see what the Geek Squad would give him.

Dell power supplies are adequate, not great, but not low end either. They work fine as long as as the computer stays fairly close to stock. It's not such a big deal as it used to be with big honking power sucking CPU's. I used to have an AMD Thunderbird that sucked down more power than a super villian. BTW, does Dell still use proprietary boards and cases so that a regular aftermarket PS won't work with it? I ran into that problem with my last ever brand name computer when I wanted to swap out a motherboard. It had to be a Dell/Intel proprietary board. I had to make some serious mods to get the Asus board to work. Since then, I've "built" (assembled) every computer in the house except the laptops. Good quality and compatible parts, no pre-installed junk software, easy to upgrade one little bit at a time, etc.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Oops....I wasn't paying attention when he noted it was a Dell part. I was curious to see what the Geek Squad would give him.

Dell power supplies are adequate, not great, but not low end either. They work fine as long as as the computer stays fairly close to stock. It's not such a big deal as it used to be with big honking power sucking CPU's. I used to have an AMD Thunderbird that sucked down more power than a super villian. BTW, does Dell still use proprietary boards and cases so that a regular aftermarket PS won't work with it? I ran into that problem with my last ever brand name computer when I wanted to swap out a motherboard. It had to be a Dell/Intel proprietary board. I had to make some serious mods to get the Asus board to work. Since then, I've "built" (assembled) every computer in the house except the laptops. Good quality and compatible parts, no pre-installed junk software, easy to upgrade one little bit at a time, etc.

Geek Squad didn't have the part in stock, so I'm guessing that Dell keeps things pretty close to the vest. With service like I got, I can understand why. Less than 24 hours from the time I placed the order. Pretty impressive. :cool:

[JRThro]

Oops....I wasn't paying attention when he noted it was a Dell part. I was curious to see what the Geek Squad would give him.

Dell power supplies are adequate, not great, but not low end either. They work fine as long as as the computer stays fairly close to stock. It's not such a big deal as it used to be with big honking power sucking CPU's. I used to have an AMD Thunderbird that sucked down more power than a super villian. BTW, does Dell still use proprietary boards and cases so that a regular aftermarket PS won't work with it? I ran into that problem with my last ever brand name computer when I wanted to swap out a motherboard. It had to be a Dell/Intel proprietary board. I had to make some serious mods to get the Asus board to work. Since then, I've "built" (assembled) every computer in the house except the laptops. Good quality and compatible parts, no pre-installed junk software, easy to upgrade one little bit at a time, etc.
Tim, I would guess that Dell and others still use proprietary motherboards, especially in their PC's in the smaller cases. I do not know that for sure, though.

[Solomoriah]

Tim, I would guess that Dell and others still use proprietary motherboards, especially in their PC's in the smaller cases. I do not know that for sure, though.
Well, I can confirm it. One of my customers is a large (well, for the rural area I live in) school district; they buy all their computers except for their servers from Dell (I sell them servers). They have a bunch of 2-3 year old clamshells, which take an almost standard power supply; last time I got one for them, it took Dell a total of four tries to get the part to me.

They changed an order, then canceled it, which I consider two tries; then they sent me the wrong part despite the fact that I gave them the system's service tag number to ensure they wouldn't make that mistake. The last time around, I found another company online that refurbed Dell power supplies so I could see a picture of the power supply at the same time as the part number... Dell, in their infinite corporate stupidity, does NOT have photos of their power supplies on their website anywhere. I still ordered the part from the Indian fellow they directed me to, but I ensured that the part number he quoted to me was for a power supply of the right shape for the case.

Their latest computers are all slimline "poptop" computers with long, thin, very proprietary power supplies (as well as proprietary mainboards).

So, less than 24 hours... count your lucky stars.