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  #21  
Old 04-09-2019, 01:16 PM
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Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
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The Navaho missile display is undergoing repairs at the Cape Canaveral Air Force Station.

Here's a picture I took of it during the NARCON 2019 tour.
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  #22  
Old 04-09-2019, 02:20 PM
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That's good to know. Maybe the damage was a blessing in disguise because it was in disrepair when I saw it years ago.
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  #23  
Old 04-10-2019, 12:13 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
The Navaho missile display is undergoing repairs at the Cape Canaveral Air Force Station.

Here's a picture I took of it during the NARCON 2019 tour.
That's a comforting picture! I hope tbzep's suggestion about taking the opportunity--white it's apart--to anti-corrosion treat (and possibly also internally reinforce the sections, as I'd suggested earlier) the Navaho's parts is being implemented. Also:

With today's modern "multiple, parallel light-lines" contourometers (contour-o-meters--they were in use as far back as the 1950s [if not earlier] to produce custom-shaped helmets for jet pilots; modern ones might use lasers), the Navaho could be "scanned" (if a full set of Navaho blueprints containing the outer mold lines isn't available), in order to create a set of new such drawings. The drawings could be used not only for any future restoration work on this one-and-only complete Navaho, but they would also enable exact duplicates--at any desired scale--to be made, so that other museums could have 1:1 scale (or smaller) Navaho displays. Plus:

About thirty years ago, I won two high-end Miami restaurant meal tickets (which I gave to one of my sisters and brothers-in-law, who lived near the restaurant) for winning an invention suggestion contest--similar to the old "Popular Science" magazine's section called, 'I'd Like to See Them Make..."--on a local talk radio program. I suggested a laser contourometer (years before I learned of the existence of the 1950s-era, non-laser ones, let alone the name of the devices) that would scan a person's body while he or she stood still in a small booth, then--with the help of a computer--generate custom patterns for clothing that would fit that person perfectly, which could be automatically sewn.
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  #24  
Old 04-10-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
generate custom patterns for clothing that would fit that person perfectly, which could be automatically sewn.

If I had thought of that before the dawn of computer laser scanners and whatever you call the digital/mechanical versions that are hooked into computers, I think I would have thought of dozens of uses, but never would it have dawned on me to make custom tailored clothing!
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  #25  
Old 04-10-2019, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
If I had thought of that before the dawn of computer laser scanners and whatever you call the digital/mechanical versions that are hooked into computers, I think I would have thought of dozens of uses, but never would it have dawned on me to make custom tailored clothing!
It was born of discomfort; I had clothes, but at that time, the buttoned shirts and trousers that I had just didn't fit quite right, due to my "off-spec" body proportions. (The shirts that fit me had too-small necks, requiring me to leave the upper couple of buttons un-buttoned, the long pants with wide enough pant legs had too-short pant legs [and vice-versa--long-enough ones were too narrow], and so on; a plow harness would have fit me better).
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  #26  
Old 04-10-2019, 12:05 PM
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As designed and fresh off the production line this "missile" is already in a state of "hideous disrepair".
Also a slightly less practical missile than using a CEMENT TRUCK as DAILY transportation.

Many of the military devices/vehicles/weapons designed shortly after WWII were absurd concepts in the excess to the point of insanity.
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  #27  
Old 04-10-2019, 03:35 PM
Bob Austin Bob Austin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Many of the military devices/vehicles/weapons designed shortly after WWII were absurd concepts in the excess to the point of insanity.


Yea - It Was GREAT!!!
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  #28  
Old 04-11-2019, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
As designed and fresh off the production line this "missile" is already in a state of "hideous disrepair".
Also a slightly less practical missile than using a CEMENT TRUCK as DAILY transportation.

Many of the military devices/vehicles/weapons designed shortly after WWII were absurd concepts in the excess to the point of insanity.
The Navaho was the product of "being cheap." (Arthur C. Clarke covered this phase of American missile history concisely in his 1968 non-fiction book, "The Promise of Space.") Now:

Since the early atomic bombs were so heavy, intercontinental ballistic missiles that could have carried them (which would have weighed several hundred tons) were considered too big, too cumbersome, and (the pivotal argument) too expensive. So more than a billion dollars was spent developing large cruise missiles--some of which, like the Snark, had long, even intercontinental, ranges. They were abandoned for IRBMs and ICBMs after further research showed that much smaller thermonuclear warheads would soon be feasible--warheads that could be delivered over intercontinental ranges by ballistic missiles weighing about a hundred tons. But:

The Navaho appeared in the middle of this paradigm shift, which in hindsight proved to be a blessing in disguise. Despite the fact that most of its flights ended in spectacular pyrotechnic displays, the Rocketdyne-built Navaho booster rocket engines--which were descended from the V-2 engine--provided the R & D know-how that was needed for the 135,000 pounds-thrust (later uprated to 150,000 pounds) engine that, with minor variations, powered the Jupiter and Thor IRBMs, and served as the Atlas ICBM's booster engines. The Navaho's inertial guidance system also provided the technological base that the IRBMs and ICBMs needed. Also:

The Soviets, interestingly, were undaunted by the great size of an ICBM that could carry the old, heavy atomic warheads, and decided to go ahead and develop it. When it was perfected in the late 1950s, it gave them a huge advantage in lifting power, which wasn't overcome in the U.S. until the full (two-stage: the eight-H-1 [uprated Thor rocket engine] S-I, topped by a six-RL-10 S-IV second stage) Block II Saturn I flew into orbit on January 27, 1964. The R-7 ICBM (Semyorka, "Old Number 7") orbited the first three Sputnik satellites without any upper stages, and with an upper stage--and sometimes with an escape stage above that--it lofted Luna 1, 2, and 3, the Vostok, Voskhod, and Soyuz manned spacecraft, and numerous lunar orbiters and (relatively) soft landers, as well as Venus flyby and atmospheric entry probes (at least one of which, Venera 7, transmitted data from the Cytherean surface; later Venera Orbiter/Lander spacecraft were launched by the larger Proton rocket).
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http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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  #29  
Old 04-11-2019, 06:43 AM
frognbuff frognbuff is offline
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I think the US was being a bit more practical than the Soviets. The R-7 certainly set the stage for legendary accomplishments, but it's operational deployment as a weapon system was limited to four pads of the type you still see at Baikonur today. The US wanted to avoid that kind of costly, exposed basing. The Soviets knew it was a crappy weapon and moved quickly to field the infinitely more practical SS-7 and SS-8 ICBMs (though the latter suffered from use of LOX).

Your narrative also omits the fact the R-7 has, in fact, evolved significantly over the years. We think of the design as static, but this chart shows the Soviets/Russians never stopped tweaking the engines for more performance: http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets/S...nes/engines.htm

Finally, don't forget the Soviets had at least two "Navaho" equivalents under development as a hedge against R-7 failure or a perceived US advantage from Navaho - the Burya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burya) and Buran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSS-40_Buran).

If GH thinks the test version of Navaho in Florida is absurd, then the planned G-38 operational version (bigger, even more difficult to handle) is truly outrageous!
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  #30  
Old 04-11-2019, 08:45 AM
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