Freon molecules must have an ability to distinguish between civilian and military supersonic aircraft, because the thousands of hours of military supersonic flights at Concorde altitudes (many of which were and are over land in North America, Europe, and Asia) didn't bring a solar armageddon down on us.

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

Are you honestly saying that the military flies stratospheric supercruise aircraft and has been doing so in numbers that anywhere approach those of commercial passenger transport jets?

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-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 (L2)
Southern California Rocket Association, NAR Section 430

Indeed, it's the altitude and the volume of water vapor that makes the Concorde a bigger deal than military flights. That, and the frequency... if the Concorde still flew, and had a schedule even a fraction as busy as regular airliners, it could be a real problem.

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NAR # 115523
Once upon a better day... SAM #0076
My site: http://rocketry.gonnerman.org

Fred-
The actual number of Concorde flights compared to the number of Supersonic Military aircraft flights WAS miniscule.
When the SR-71 was active this DEFINITELY was true.
With the F22 Raptor now it is true as well; they just dont fly over populated land at Mach 1+ speeds.

As far as the coldpower engines go, R134A available at any Auto Parts store (outside of COMMIEFORNIA at least) is a PERFECTLY FUNCTIONAL substitute for the no-longer available (unless you know the right folks with 20+lb refrigeration support tanks;BUUUUWWWHHHHAAAA !) R12 Freon.
Does it do anything to the environment ? Have no idea and don't give a rat's bazoo either.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, TURMOIL, FIASCOS, and HAVOC !

The US B-58 Hustler, FB-111, and B-1B all flew/fly at those velocities and altitudes, as did/do their Soviet/Russian counterparts such as the "Blinder," "Backfire," and "Blackjack" bombers, although nowadays low-level high-subsonic penetrations are preferred in order to evade radar. Land-based and carrier-based interceptor and fighter aircraft also frequently fly at these altitudes.

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

I'm not going to waste my time doing research, but I do not beleive that the aircraft you listed flew in the STRATOSPHERE at SUPERSONIC CRUISE for any periods of time that would approach the levels of a fleet of civilian passenger carrying supersonic transports (like the Concorde or the cancelled B-2707).

The B-1B is not a B-1A.

Supersonic cruise is not supersonic dash.

Mach 1.25 is not Mach 2.02 is not mach 2.7



etc.

__________________
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 (L2)
Southern California Rocket Association, NAR Section 430

I've sent an email with my thoughts.

__________________
Leo

My rocket fleet and more @ Leo's Leisure Site and on YouTube - My latest project: ALTDuino

Fred,
Do you really think that because we are not using F-12 anymore that the ozone holes closed right up? I'd love to see your science that backs that up. Lightning creates tons more ozone every day than F-12 ever devoured. Somehow, I just do not believe (nor does science support) the notion that we (humans) can destroy the ozone layer even if we held down all the shrader valves on all the units in the world still using it. Incidentally, is it not just the U.S. that has outlawed F-12? I think it is still manufactured and used around the world, is it not?
There were not enough Concords flying enough routes to significantly damage the ozone layer. Does not matter whether they flew over the ocean or over populated areas anyway, except for the sonic booms which is why they were held to the North East Coast approaches.
Heck, burning gasohol releases more ozone damaging components than just combusting plain gasoline, Fred.
Was that you I saw in the crowd protesting the arrival of the Concord (British spelling) on American soil?
Somehow, I think the Sr-71 flights burned up 1000's more moles of ozone than all the F-12 we could ever produce.
Allen

http://debunkhouse.wordpress.com/20...the-ozone-hole/

http://info-pollution.com/tforce.htm

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread589734/pg1

I take ANYTHING regarding the environment that comes from ANYONE located anywhere in the the state of Commiefornia with not a grain of salt but with a HUGE BLOCK of salt as the vast majority of it is left-wing alarmist nonsense.
+100 to what Allen said.

By the way, it's Freon R-12, not F-12; the F-12 was a cancelled Fighter version of the SR-71 !

I'd love to show up to a NARAM in Commiefornia (whenever they get one) and fly a Coldpower Estes/Vashon rocket with an original can of RP-100 under the OOP motor program. The looks on faces of the enviro-WHACKOS would be priceless. Probably would deliberately run my generator on LEADED AV100LL just to add to the antagonization !

If the enviro-whackos would devote their time to doing something actually PRODUCTIVE it would be much more beneficial to society as a whole instead of spreading their fetid tripe nonsense theories that real scientists have to spend time debunking. Even once debunked like the entire DDT matter was, left-whangers still will not leave it alone instead of doing some productive activity.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, TURMOIL, FIASCOS, and HAVOC !

Thanks, GH. Ironic that I misstated f-12 for R-12.

Back to point, I have to ask a question: Looks like from the data that CO2 is a better choice than Freon R-12. Is it in practice with this sort of application?
I agree with the earlier post that we are not adding CO2 to the environment that was not already there.
As nuclear physics is my vocation, I just do not believe CO2 is a greenhouse gas in the first place.


Vapor pressure at 10 degrees C (about 50 degrees F):

CO2 : about 34,000mm Hg
ChloroDifluroMethane: about 5000mm Hg
Dichlorodifluromethane: about 3100mmHg
Cyclopentane: about 180mmHg