Greg and Dave,

Glad you enjoyed the article! I appreciate the feedback, too.

I sent my buddy Mike Jerauld (of "Blast From The Past Rocketry" fame) the segment about scale vs. sci-fi. He told me, "It sounds like something I'd hear on the 6 o'clock news!"

Well, duh:

[I was a TV news reporter for more than 13 years, Nov. 2000 to Jan. 2014. ]


Cheers,

__________________
Jay Goemmer
"Centuri Guy"/"Tau Zero"
YORF Member 28
Semroc SAM #0029
NAR 86131


"I think about organizing things all the time. Never seems to happen. I find something that piques my interest and I'm off on a quest. Or a Centuri. "

--Bill Eichelberger, 02/22/2022


“Centuri fret buzz in an updated form.”
Bill “Wallyum” Eichelberger re: Estes Flutter-By
03 Sept 2014

I got to see Lee, Betty and their son Rick Yesterday at the iHobby show. They all looked great and as usual I had a great time talking with them.

Heartily agreed! I would also add:

6) The card stock ring shock cord anchor (used in the Astro-1 kit)
7) The self-adhesive shock cord anchor

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

SuperKits.......

__________________
Don
NAR 53455
"Carpe Diem"

Who introduced the metal engine locks first, Centuri or Estes? I think Centuri's first kit to feature an engine lock was the Astro-1 in 1969, but not sure if Estes had one before that or not.

Also, plastic nose cones....who intro'd those first? Centuri had them by late '69. T-Bird plans dated 1969 feature a plastic cone.


Earl

__________________
Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970

I noticed you said engine "lock" instead of "hook", making the question a little more specific. The Astron Scout had it's wire hook way before 1969, but it was different than the retainers made of flat stock.

Both companies had plastic Apollo Saturn V capsules in 1969. After glancing at 68 catalogs, I didn't notice anything that would have to be plastic, but I don't know at what point the two companies started switching from balsa to plastic on some of the regular kits.

__________________
I love sanding.

The 1969 Centuri catalog refers to the Astro-1's "Quick-Change" engine mount (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/69cenp13.html ). The 1970 Centuri Christmas catalog (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...01/701cen6.html ) lists "Built-In Engine Lock" as the kit's major feature.For the Astro-1, Centuri first touted its "New Plastic Payload Cone" in their 1971 catalog (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...d/71dcen12.html ). Estes also appears to have introduced plastic nose cones in their sport kits in 1971, when the Alpha III (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...1/711est16.html ) and the Quasar (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...71/71cit08.html ), among other "plastic-coned" kits, made their debut.

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

IMO there would have never been a Centuri without an Estes first. As early as 1962, Vern and Lee entered into an agreement for Centuri to purchase and sell relabeled Estes engines as Centuri engines.

EDIT Lee piester attended NARAM-3 in Aug 1961 and the 1st Centuri Catalog appeared around May 1962 selling Centuri engines. SO Vern and Lee evidently made the deal sometime in this period.

This agreement ran up and until approximately 1969, when the first Mabel production topped out, and Centuri was forced to make their own engines.

Yes I realize that Centuri had a "lock" on the bigger engine market, but the costs of the bigger engines and their associated transportation costs made them a niche market. Centuri sold many more relabel Estes engines as Centuri than they ever did the Coaster derivatives.

I not saying Centuri didn't innovate; I am saying that the sales of the relabeled Estes engines provided the company with a cash flow that it would not otherwise would have had. Hence they would not have been able to purchase the remains of Coaster and improve on those first with the Atlas/Hercules and then later with the mini-max BP engines. Heck, Centuri was already looking at composite engines as early as 1962-63 based upon Lee's background and experience with composites in his amateur rocketry activities from the mis-late 1950's..

Of course this was a pure business decision on Vern's part.....what do you do, when you have a machine that can make many more model rocket engines than you can possibly sell? well you make relabeled engines for Centuri and Rocket Development Corp and Kruger,etc.

As we all know by 1971, the Space Race and Space Programs were fading from the public eye, sales of model rocketry products faded too, and Lee made the right decision to sell Centuri to DAMON, due to increased costs and lower sales.

Terry Dean


ps MMI Aerobees had plastic nose cones back in 1958.

__________________
"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP".....unless you 3D print them.

The Scout hook was for the casing to slide along. The Centuri hook was designed to flex to insert a casing past it. The innovation was the use of die stamped spring steel. Estes quickly followed.

Funny story Ed Brown once told me the engine hooks were annoying because they were laying all over the floor at the plant. I know the feeling. Here it is rogue streamers, rings, and bent tubes. It's like the world's largest spare parts bin or something.

The plastic nose cones mentioned above are injection molded not blow molded. It is interesting to note the Alpha III is STILL in production with the same shape molds, but I bet they have rehabbed the molds a couple of times since. They have made a LOT of those kits.

Jerry

The '66 Estes catalog, page 68, had item # 651-EH-2 :

"flat spring steel design gives easy installation and low drag."

On page 51 it even has an illustration on how to build an engine mount with one.

My 1967 Centuri catalog shows nothing like it. As you said, the '69 Centuri catalog mentions it in the Astro-1 and the Saturns, but they were not mentioned in the catalog as a separate item.

As for plastic nose cones, I could be cute and say that MMI and then Estes had them in 1960 or so, but you could also make a case for the Estes Camroc.

But little BoMar had normal plastic nose cones in 1969, while Centuri only had specialized noses for the Saturns and Little Joes. Cox and MPC were gearing up to bring plastics to the forefront later in the year.

However, I definitely think Centuri jumped fully into plastics a bit before Estes did.

__________________
Roy
nar12605