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  #21  
Old 07-21-2017, 03:43 PM
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Thank you both [correction: all three of you]--I may have been mistaken about who invented the flat cat (I haven't read any of Smith's or Heinlein's stories, but I read somewhere about Smith incorporating the creatures in his works; maybe they both used them?).
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  #22  
Old 07-21-2017, 06:23 PM
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Default More Flat Cats --- no, not the flying variety!

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Originally Posted by blackshire
Thank you both [correction: all three of you]--I may have been mistaken about who invented the flat cat (I haven't read any of Smith's or Heinlein's stories, but I read somewhere about Smith incorporating the creatures in his works; maybe they both used them?).
This has been bugging me today --- did a little web research, and found this article over at Wikipedia (but the story is repeated in numerous other websites' links, all basically telling the same story, and in the context of the Star Trek episode "The Trouble with Tribbles"):

Heinlein's flat cats are often said to have been the inspiration for the tribbles of the Star Trek episode "The Trouble with Tribbles". (Heinlein himself said he may have gotten the idea from Ellis Parker Butler's 1905 story "Pigs Is Pigs".) David Gerrold, the author of the episode, claims that he had read the Heinlein book years before writing his screenplay and was not consciously aware of the similarities until Desilu/Paramount conducted a routine studio clearances review following an inquiry by Kellam de Forest, its primary in-house researcher. This prompted a contact with Heinlein who admitted the similarities but also graciously waived all rights, Heinlein asking only for an autographed copy of the script.

No reference to "Doc" Smith's work, but that doesn't prove anything --- just that The Rolling Stone's "Flat Cats" ideological predecessors were apparently guinea pigs in the Ellis Parker Butler story.

I've heard it stated that, eventually, almost all writers end up "recycling" ideas of others...looks like this may be the case, even here.

We now return this thread to its original intent, a discussion of the history of the uber-cool rockets from MPC (of which, incidentally, my favorite is the Theta-Cajun)
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  #23  
Old 07-21-2017, 06:37 PM
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Default Coincidences, coincidences...

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Originally Posted by pterodactyl
Stine was very close to Heinlein, so the Flat Cat name has an obvious explanation of which I was unaware until now. I thought it was a Grumman aircraft reference; they named all their aircraft after types of 'Cat'.
I was an avid reader of both men's works when I was a young boy --- my first science fiction book was "Starship Through Space" by Stine (under his Lee Correy pseudonym). My favorite Heinlein story has always been "Have Space Suit, Will Travel".

It was not until 30-plus years later that I learned that those two books, from my two favorite authors, were actually dedicated to each other!

Stine's Starship states, "To Ginny and Bob", while Heinlein's "Space Suit" is dedicated "For Harry and Barbara Stine".

I wonder what RAH's opinion of model rocketry was? I don't believe it was ever mentioned in any of his books...and the two books mentioned above were published in 1954 and 1958, respectively, well before the "launch" of our hobby. Ah, well. Not the most earth-shattering of questions, but it would be interesting, in this "historical" thread, if anyone out there had ever asked G. Harry about his interactions with the Grand Master of SF.
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Old 07-21-2017, 07:32 PM
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Dean,

There's a Heinlein/Stine anecdote which I recall without remembering its source. As the story goes after Heinlein's death someone asked Stine if was going to speak at the funeral, to which Stine replied "Would you be able to speak at your father's funeral?". Not exactly a direct interaction but it speaks to Stine's feelings on RAH.

Here's an image for you from the National Collection.

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Old 07-21-2017, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by pterodactyl
Dean,

Here's an image for you from the National Collection.
Pat, she's a beauty. Thanks!
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  #26  
Old 07-21-2017, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pterodactyl
Dean,

There's a Heinlein/Stine anecdote which I recall without remembering its source. As the story goes after Heinlein's death someone asked Stine if was going to speak at the funeral, to which Stine replied "Would you be able to speak at your father's funeral?". Not exactly a direct interaction but it speaks to Stine's feelings on RAH.

Here's an image for you from the National Collection.

There is a side-by-side photograph of two of that rocket, which is rather reminiscent of Centuri's Excalibur (or maybe it's a "split-screen," before-and-after picture--it shows an un-decorated one and a fully-decaled one) in Stine's Arco-published "The New Model Rocketry Manual." Its 15 mm diameter upper section looks similar to the second stage of the AVI Space Angel, which used the same 5:1 tangent ogive nose cone (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/nostalgia/73avi04.html ); maybe it was inspired by the design in the book?
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  #27  
Old 07-23-2017, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Thank you both [correction: all three of you]--I may have been mistaken about who invented the flat cat (I haven't read any of Smith's or Heinlein's stories, but I read somewhere about Smith incorporating the creatures in his works; maybe they both used them?).


blackshire,

My introduction to Heinlein was discovering his juvenile series books in my junior high library in the 7th grade. The Rolling Stones and Rocket Ship Galileo hooked me on Heinlein. My favorite as a kid was Red Planet. When my oldest daughter was in 5th grade, I turned her loose on my collection, with a few of his adult-content books pulled from selection. She went on to be a voracious reader, and a big fan of science fiction. She became an an English teacher probably as a result.

You really ought to give his works a try.
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  #28  
Old 07-23-2017, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
You may have solved this mystery with that one word ("plastic")--you jogged my memory of the scanned Nike-Patriot instructions on the Ninfinger Productions website. A high-quality spiral-wound kraft paper tube with a thin plastic overwrap (which might also have "soaked" into the upper layer of the paper, if the plastic was applied in a dissolved liquid [or molten] form) could also have the same physical characteristics as the MPC tubes, especially if the cured (or cooled & solidified) plastic was stiff (had a low elastic modulus). It would also--depending on its composition--be perfect for making strong plastic-to-plastic bonds (with the MPC styrene plastic launch lugs, for example), using ordinary plastic cement (if I recall correctly, the instructions called for using tube-type plastic cement).

I don't think the tubes are as "plastic" as you speculate. I think we're dealing with really good quality paper tubes with a wrap that is coated paper.

I have some scraps of T-20 and might try to do a peel and see what the bond is like.

CMR tubing was similar. Used the same metric sizing. I had compartively fewer CMR kits through the years.
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  #29  
Old 07-23-2017, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
blackshire,

My introduction to Heinlein was discovering his juvenile series books in my junior high library in the 7th grade. The Rolling Stones and Rocket Ship Galileo hooked me on Heinlein. My favorite as a kid was Red Planet. When my oldest daughter was in 5th grade, I turned her loose on my collection, with a few of his adult-content books pulled from selection. She went on to be a voracious reader, and a big fan of science fiction. She became an an English teacher probably as a result.

You really ought to give his works a try.
Yes, some of his later works, as I've read from reviewers, weren't for juvenile consumption, but his earlier ones seem very entertaining and insightful.
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  #30  
Old 07-23-2017, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
I don't think the tubes are as "plastic" as you speculate. I think we're dealing with really good quality paper tubes with a wrap that is coated paper.

I have some scraps of T-20 and might try to do a peel and see what the bond is like.

CMR tubing was similar. Used the same metric sizing. I had compartively fewer CMR kits through the years.
That could very well be, as I don't have any "loose" examples of their tubing to examine (my few MPC kits are sealed, and the few built MPC rockets I have are painted).
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http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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