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#11
02-21-2017, 05:28 PM
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1. concluding ground rules and constraints...
2. stack liftoff thrust/weight ratios... 3. candidate HLLV configurations... some of which will fit the VAB, some won't... 4. lunar vehicle-- NLS core with 4 LRBs (ET diameter w/4 F-1As) 5. lunar vehicle-- NLS core w/ 4 LRBs (ET dia w 4 F-1As) and TLI stage... 6. another similar variant... 7. super-stretch lunar booster NLS core, TWO LRBs (ET dia w/ 4 F-1As each), second AND TLI stage 8. Mars vehicle-- NLS core, 4 stretched ET size LRB's with 4 F-1A's each, mega-payload shroud 9. Conclusions... I see nobody mentioned the conclusion that firing off a first stage with SIXTEEN F-1A's developing 1.8-2 million pounds thrust EACH, PLUS another 4 STME's on the core stage (at 650,000 lbs thrust each) would likely blow Mickey's doors off in Orlando, to say nothing off all the folks closer to the launch site...      10. Introduction to the series-staged options...
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The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round! Last edited by luke strawwalker : 02-21-2017 at 07:36 PM. 
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#12
02-21-2017, 05:31 PM
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1. Initial design iterations of the series-staged options...
2. ground rules... 3. configuration matrix... wow only 12 F-1's on their biggest contender... 4. alternate vehicle tank options... 5. continued... 6. continued... 7. continued... 8. continued... 9. concluded... 10. Case 4 alternative designs...
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The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round! Last edited by luke strawwalker : 02-21-2017 at 07:41 PM.
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#13
02-21-2017, 05:34 PM
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1. degraded third stage performance
2. continued... 3. yet another third stage... 4. degraded third stage performance rocket chart... 5. things to do next... 6. first lunar outpost activities/assessment... 7. alternate launch sites assessments... 8. existing launch sites candidates... 9. existing launch site candidates chart... 10. potential new launch sites...
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The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round! Last edited by luke strawwalker : 02-21-2017 at 09:24 PM.
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#14
02-21-2017, 05:38 PM
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1. Top level launch site selection figures of merit...
2. ground system design candidate selection criteria... 3. flight design candidate selection criteria... 4. KSC processing assumptions... 5. continued... 6. shuttle turnaround comparison... 7. Saturn Derived single launch vehicles... 8. Launch processing scenario 9. Top level processing timeline... 10. top level processing timeline 2...
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The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round! Last edited by luke strawwalker : 02-21-2017 at 09:33 PM.
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#15
02-21-2017, 05:41 PM
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1. Vehicle integration timeline...
2. multi-launch timeline... 3. First Lunar Outpost Studies draft, interim report... 4. Apollo lunar launch azimuth abort areas... 5. ocean recovery... 6. launch site facility preliminary assessment. 7. single launch vehicle processing scenario... 8. vehicle orientation on the MLP... 9. VAB highbay facility limitations highbays 2 and 4... 10. VAB highbay facility limitations-- VAB south transfer aisle...
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The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round! Last edited by luke strawwalker : 02-21-2017 at 09:40 PM.
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#16
02-21-2017, 05:42 PM
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1. single launch vehicle launch site issues...
2. launch site issues- pad... 3. mobile launcher w/ tower... 4. stage processing facilities That's all folks... Enjoy! OL J R 
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The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round! Last edited by luke strawwalker : 02-21-2017 at 09:42 PM.
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#17
02-21-2017, 11:10 PM
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#18
02-22-2017, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
I'll go you one better... I give you the Team Direct Jupiter III... Four SRB's, 2 shuttle ET's (just for core boosters!) feeding a cluster of "RS-100" engines (150% thrust of an RS-68B upgrade for Ares V-- which were about 705,000 lbs thrust, which would make the RS-100 about 1.05 million pound thrust ) in a disposable ring that jettisons shortly after the twin ET "drop tanks" on either side jettison, at which point the core vehicle fires up its cluster of five J-2X engines just above the jettisonable ring, burning the core propellant... Would have been just incredibly massive... thing would have cracked the VAB floor in half and hopelessly sank into the crawlerway before ever making it to the pad, as all the more than two SRB proposals would have... and it would have obliterated the pads at 39A and B, since they weren't meant to take anything like that... Plus it would have broken all the windows at Mickey's place in Orlando most likely and done far worse to the surrounding Space Coast towns and cities... LOL Later! OL J R
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The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!
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#19
02-22-2017, 10:13 PM
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...And we all paid for these ultimately useless studies and what little hardware (such as the Ares-1X suborbital test vehicle) resulted from them. *SIGH* SLS will fare little better, I fear, consuming billions of dollars and *maybe* flying once before that program collapses due to its exorbitant cost. If an earthquake destroyed the SRB plant in Utah (when no one was inside), I'd view it as a blessing in disguise, finally freeing us from that self-limiting (but politically palatable) Shuttle-era technology.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see: http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185 http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050 http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511 All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com. NAR #54895 SR
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#20
02-22-2017, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Yep... pretty much! Agree completely. One thing I'm seeing more and more is, NASA keeps "studying" the issue every few years as the political winds blow and the next big "exploration program" is proposed (be it "Mars 1980" or "SEI" or the "VSE", or various programs like the ALS which morphed into the NLS... and they KEEP GETTING THE SAME FRIGGIN' ANSWERS!!! Whether you like Werner Von Braun or think he's a war criminal, the guy was a genius... he (and his team) got it right THE FIRST TIME... The BEST way to go to the Moon was with a serially-staged three stage ALL LIQUID PROPULSION rocket, powered by dense kerosene/LOX on the first stage and high energy cryogenic propellants on the upper/TLI stages. The best way to build a "bigger than Saturn V" booster was to add kerolox liquid rocket boosters to said vehicle. Instead, as you said, we remain chained to the outdated and unnecessary SRB's. Basically, we ended up with the WORST of the shuttle program being carried in as the corner stone of the new program, so should we be surprised that it's going to be super-expensive and not very effective?? After the collapse of the ESAS-induced "Constellation Program" (which incidentally the "clean sheet" kerolox booster options beat on every metric except COST (which we already know that NASA cost estimates are only tools used to justify decisions or choices already made, and bear little/no semblance to reality), they studied the issue YET AGAIN under the RAC-2 studies that justified the "Ares V lite" shuttle derived SLS. Guess what?? AGAIN the serially staged kerolox/LH2 upper stages 3 stage rocket beat the pants off everything else, and was EASILY upgraded by adding a pair of kerolox LRB's to the rocket to give it super-heavy capability... but once again, they tilted the results with "sunk costs" arguments and pretended that anything "shuttle derived" would be free, cheap, and easy to do while anything "clean sheet" or "Saturn derived" would be enormously expensive... so naturally the decision went to keep "shuttle derived". I'm with you, the SRB's have outlived their usefulness. They're too darn heavy and they're too limiting and their performance is not up to snuff compared to other options. They're polluting and dangerous and difficult to handle and we could do MUCH better... Look at Falcon Heavy-- virtually the same performance as SLS Block I but with a MUCH smaller and cheaper vehicle... WHY do you think the Air Force and DOD went with NON SOLID PROPELLANT rockets when they contracted for the EELV's?? After all, the flippin' Air Force had been flying Titan III's since the 60's and Titan IV's after that; they had PLENTY of experience with large solid rockets... so if solid rockets are SO advantageous, WHY did they DUMP them at the first opportunity?? Because Titan IV taught the Air Force that large solid rockets are VERY EXPENSIVE; basically a Titan IV launch was about the same cost as a shuttle launch... that's not a coincidence, nor is it a coincidence that both used large solid rocket boosters. EELV was predicated on the idea of cheaper launch costs, so they went with LIQUID propulsion, specifically kerolox propulsion in the RD-170 on Atlas V, supplemented with SMALL solids as needed to boost performance, and with LH2 in the RS-68 on Delta IV, with a 3 core "heavy" variant for big stuff... Yet NASA remains chained to an outdated and horribly expensive and very limiting SRB-based infrastructure... it's ridiculous... I'm like you-- I don't see SLS surviving long term. It's a rocket project to nowhere... it'll probably fly a test flight, maybe two, and get "shelved" indefinitely, until ISS finally falls apart. By that time it'll be "too expensive to reactivate" and maybe, JUSt MAYBE, IF WE'RE LUCKY, by then the SRB technology will have been shelved long enough to be outdated and dead or scrapped, and we can move on to more sensible kerolox propulsion for whatever comes after... Later! OL J R
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The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!
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