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  #11  
Old 02-01-2017, 09:13 AM
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Ltvscout Ltvscout is offline
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Like Bill, I bought a number of tube assortments from him in the early 2000's and never had an issue.
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  #12  
Old 02-01-2017, 11:08 AM
kevinj kevinj is offline
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When the Estes Designer's Special was full of useless plastic RTF leftovers, the Red Arrow builder's pack was a great value. I think I still have some of the tube couplers left over from those assortments in the parts bin.

kj
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  #13  
Old 02-01-2017, 12:43 PM
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This is a forum catering to BAR's and old rockets, so the nostalgia of past good service is welcomed. However, when it comes to commerce and your hard earned money, you can't live in the past. There are several threads on more than one forum dealing with RAH issues in recent years. Caveat emptor.
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  #14  
Old 02-01-2017, 04:37 PM
Woody's Workshop Woody's Workshop is offline
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I for one hope he gets his life in order.
Makes good on anything outstanding, with interest.
And returns to revive his good name.
For what ever reason, we all have problems in life.
Be self inflicted, by chance of economy, or other reasons.
Every one deserves a 2nd chance.
Willing to make things right doesn't come any easier to the ones that kicked you when you were down.
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  #15  
Old 02-01-2017, 06:40 PM
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If someone continues to take orders during what you say is "down" and they either don't ship or refund IMMEDIATELY upon request, exactly what they DESERVE is to be KICKED WHILE DOWN.
NO excuses for this sort of baloney.
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  #16  
Old 02-02-2017, 12:28 AM
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luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
This is a forum catering to BAR's and old rockets, so the nostalgia of past good service is welcomed. However, when it comes to commerce and your hard earned money, you can't live in the past. There are several threads on more than one forum dealing with RAH issues in recent years. Caveat emptor.


Exactly...

This subject has come up a number of times on the various forums over the years... and it always works out that for every person that quotes their "perfect, trouble free" transactions with RAH, there's at least TEN folks who waited for months, made numerous attempts at communications with little response, and FINALLY either got their stuff or eventually a refund, usually after some verbal kerfluffle between them and the owner.

If he had what you ordered in stock, you were golden-- got your stuff in a timely manner no problem. If you ordered something he was out of, or ended up on backorder, or whatever, you order ended up in the huge pile of boxes behind the counter with the order sheet taped to it, with the things already put in the box crossed off, waiting until whatever remained FINALLY arrived at RAH and he got around to putting it in the box and prepping it for shipment. That could be a LONG wait, and he didn't bother emailing or calling or explaining or asking whether you wanted the part of your order he hand on hand now and the rest later, etc. You had to call and email and call and email over and over until he FINALLY came across or the customer finally canceled the order and he got around to refunding you.

Sad but true. It was just a VERY poor way of doing business and simply not going to be a success over the long haul. He kept going "on a shoestring" for a long time, but things worked against him and instead of pulling it together, he got worse... Pretty much sealed his fate.

Later! OL J R
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  #17  
Old 02-02-2017, 12:42 AM
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luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
If someone continues to take orders during what you say is "down" and they either don't ship or refund IMMEDIATELY upon request, exactly what they DESERVE is to be KICKED WHILE DOWN.
NO excuses for this sort of baloney.


Yeah, I have to agree with you 100% GH...

It's simply UNETHICAL to continue to take orders when you're not fulfilling the ones you have been paid for already, or you know your business is floundering due to whatever "life circumstances" have beset you.

It wasn't right when Sheri was stiffing people who IN GOOD FAITH were ordering kits costing hundreds of dollars, and she kept the money and either sent them substandard JUNK, or didn't send them ANYTHING AT ALL. So she had a messy divorce and moved to Hawaii, and her ex's buddy who turned aluminum motor retainer nozzles for her told her to pee up a rope... when you run out of parts, it's time to QUIT TAKING ORDERS and REFUND people who ordered stuff you CANNOT DELIVER.

It wasn't right when the THIEVES that were running "LAUNCH" magazine folded up shop and took off for the hills with the money without even a fare-thee-well... They gave NO indication that "we're struggling and may be in trouble" and kept taking money right up (and probably past) the point they said, "so sorry, we can't make a go of it, thanks for the memories" and folded. They made EXACTLY ZERO effort to make it right by the folks (like me) who believed in them and was trying to support what they were doing and made a 3 year subscription so they had some up-front money to help build the magazine... instead after 2-3 issues after I paid in my subscription, the folded like a kite in a hurricane and gave everybody a big ol' MIDDLE FINGER and did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to even ATTEMPT to make it right... They didn't switch to web-based content to save printing costs, didn't offer even partial refunds, didn't offer alternative products (they published a few different magazines), NOTHING. Just a sob story and and a big "EFF YOU" as they stuck the money in their pockets and moved on.

And, it's not right now for the folks that are complaining (present tense) on the Terribly Run Forum and Faceplace about how they paid money IN GOOD FAITH to Red Arrow for product that they've never received, gotten no word from the owner about, and not gotten any refunds (outside their own financial institutions, which just costs EVERYBODY in the end... )

It's not rocket science-- if you run a business and you take the money in exchange for a product, you either deliver the product or give them the money back. You don't keep taking money when you KNOW you cannot deliver or have no intention of delivering what you promised.

ETHICS and SCRUPLES... some people have them, some don't. Caveat Emptor...

Later! OL J R : )
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  #18  
Old 02-02-2017, 12:50 AM
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luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody's Workshop
(snip)
Every one deserves a 2nd chance.


Yeah... but a third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh... where does it end??

This isn't a recent development... go back in the forums and you can find this EXACT sort of thing has been going on with regard to RAH for YEARS... MANY years in fact-- as long as I've been on the forums, and that's been over a decade...

The old saying comes to mind... "Fool me once, shame on YOU, fool me twice, shame on ME!" Trust is earned not freely given... we all take a chance, and yeah we all deserve a second chance. IF RAH's business practices had been nothing but sterling to this point, we'd ALL pretty much be "Omigosh, what a terrible situation to happen to such a great asset to the rocketry business; sure hope things turn around soon!"

But when it's only a difference of degrees, the culmination of a pattern that has been ongoing for YEARS, it's a slightly different story...

I don't think anybody wishes him ill, I know I certainly don't. BUT I don't think rewarding bad decisions and bad behavior with blind trust is particularly smart either.

Yes, hopefully he gets over his problems and gets back on track and makes it right as best as possible. Is it very likely?? Probably not.... but there's always hope...

Course, life has taught me "hope in one hand and crap in the other and see which fills up first"...

Oh well...

Later! OL J R
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  #19  
Old 02-02-2017, 12:01 PM
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I didn't get fooled by RAH or Launch Magazine thankfully.
I really liked Launch Magazine, but from the get-go their publication schedule was very HAP-HAZARD and full of unacceptable excuses regarding publication delays, combining two issues into one with no larger content, and other unacceptable crapola ad infinitum.
I bought it on the news-stand/hobby shop magazine rack only because of this.
When they stiffed customers it was NO surprise to me.

I bought a LOT of PDR (Pimp Daddy Rocketry) clones when they first started. The kits were great 100% correct clones. I was very surprised when they folded up and stiffed a lot of people.

I will quote my favorite line from Mike McDermott (Matt Damon) in the movie "Rounders"-
Caveat Emptor, PAL !

Before I buy from ANYONE online, I research their past reputation, paying closest attention to the most current reviews.

Based on the reputation of Red Arrow Hobbies, I would not have given them one thin dime, EVER.
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  #20  
Old 02-02-2017, 12:27 PM
astronwolf astronwolf is offline
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Thread reminds me of one great truism in hobby rocketry - You're not going to get rich by going into the rocketry business. We have about 60 years of history to prove that. Countless vendors have come and gone. RAH is just another example of someone who got into the business for whatever reason (most likely because it's cool and they enjoy the hobby), runs for a while, and then fades away. Launch magazine had its precedents (Model Rocketry, Extreme Rocketry, High Power Rocketry magazines). RAH has its precedents (countless vendors). Even GHS tried to get into the business for many years and couldn't get anything to stick. Quest died.

Still more new people will come into the hobby ignorant of its history and try to recreate the wheel. Especially after attending a couple big launches and thinking that there might be some money to be made here. There will be new Launch magazines and new RAHs. Another one bites the dust.
-W
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