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  #11  
Old 01-05-2007, 11:18 PM
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Carl@Semroc Carl@Semroc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
IOW, save the low-thrust and medium thrust motors for later.
Once we get the engine machine cranking out a particular size, that whole lineage will be available. That means a B4, B6, B8, and B14 would all be released at the same time.
Quote:
I wonder about reliability and cost. I've heard that some large BP motors had fiberglass cases.
We will avoid THAT! I think the fiberglass tubes would not work with our machine anyway.
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The potential beauty of this is that only two pieces are required (plus glue) to make a myriad of delay options. Looking at Aerotech thru an accountant's eyes, I was able to learn the huge costs they have tied up in delays and delay spacers. .....From a manufacturing perspective, delay grains would be cranked out along with 0 delay motors. Advanced users - us - would buy these two piece motors and use them however we need - eg, C20-0, C20-5, C20-10. But ordinary retail channels can be served with pre-trimmed, pre-glued products as well. However, these would be built up using the same two pieces. There would be no large factory inventories of pre-trimmed, pre-glued motors.
We had originally thought about just that... Build 18mm boosters on a machine and DECAPS on another much smaller and simpler machine, then glue them together to "fill the matrix." When we ran the numbers, the projected retail price was:

B6-0 $2.05 each
B6-4 $2.30 each
DECAP $0.75 each

So to make them up separately "just-in-time" would bring a premium in price of about $.50 each. For people that want the best, it is still an option. The DECAP should be far more accurate in delay time. Once a DECAP is glued-in, it is permanent. We will have the top of the DECAP color-coded with the BBROYGBVGW scheme so the delay time would be known.
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  #12  
Old 01-05-2007, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl@Semroc
Good input! This is very well received. As I said, the first step is to get a large enough list to get started, get the list approved, then be able to ship samples for testing.

How about any other different sizes? The 15mm will probably be removed. It just does not have too many good uses.


I wouldn't discount this size just yet, Carl. This is an intermediate diameter between the standard 18 and the mini 13; I can see possibilities here for "B" class motors that can't be done in 13. If I had some power numbers that I could feed into RockSim's Motor Editor, I could run some tests on various designs. Since we don't have those numbers yet, I really don't know what the potential is.

Maybe that is something you could work up for us -- a RockSim motor chart with all of the data you've worked out to this point. With a starting point like that, we can start playing with the motors before you get them in production, and we can give you additional feedback as to what works and what doesn't.

I'm also interested in the 10 as a class; if I can get 500' from a 13mm A3, and even 200' on a 1/2 A3, then there is potential in this size. What have you been able to realistically predict as far as power in this size package?

Side thought here -- are you considering the 18mm "S" series for anything, or is this a dead size?

Quote:
About the port burning C engines, we did have a 3/4C19 that was reliable in testing, but the full C was too much to drill. Maybe if it was done in two operations... In any case, it would be closer to a C32 with the same .3 second burn. Peak thrust of 60 N - 13 pounds. That looks like too much warranty work! >400G's in a Sky Hook!


My Triton 3-stage design needs a reliable 18mm booster for the first stage. Right now, it will take a D12 to get it off the pad with enough kick for a 48" rod; I'd like something in the 18mm size for lifting heavier stacks like this, and like the old Centuri T-Bird.
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  #13  
Old 01-05-2007, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle3
*still thinking about port burning C's* Imagine a Cobra or Ranger on 3xC19's!


..... or a Goliath

Would make for a nice fire and smoke video with 3xC19's in a Goliath fitted with the Oracle camera

The availability of these new Semroc motors will open up many new opportunities! When the new port burners are produced they will be great for getting staged models moving off the rod a little quicker. I'm really interested in clustering and staging them .....



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  #14  
Old 01-05-2007, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by snaquin
..... or a Goliath


...Or a Hydra-7...

Maybe that's too much caffine...
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  #15  
Old 01-06-2007, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
...Or a Hydra-7...

Maybe that's too much caffine...


*LOL* I was just thinking of a Hydra 7 too. Better epoxy those fins on!.
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  #16  
Old 01-06-2007, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
...Or a Hydra-7...

Maybe that's too much caffine...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle3
*LOL* I was just thinking of a Hydra 7 too. Better epoxy those fins on!.


We'll have to dub that special flight configuration with an appropriate nickname,
like the Semroc Screaming Hydra VII




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  #17  
Old 01-06-2007, 04:17 PM
Mark+3 Mark+3 is offline
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RE: 15mm motors
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
I wouldn't discount this size just yet, Carl. This is an intermediate diameter between the standard 18 and the mini 13; I can see possibilities here for "B" class motors that can't be done in 13. Side thought here -- are you considering the 18mm "S" series for anything, or is this a dead size?



Craig, I also would like to see the "S" short series motors. Being 18mm X 45mm a new size tube isn't needed. I see no need to complicate things with another diameter.

Carl, were you planning on releasing the 18 X 45mm when you kitted the Firefly? This size isn't in the family portrait. Will a "B" power load fit this package?

THE 18 X 45mm IS HIGH ON MY WISH LIST.

Last edited by Mark+3 : 01-14-2007 at 04:03 AM.
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  #18  
Old 01-06-2007, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark+3
Carl, were you planning on releasing the 18 X 45mm when you kitted the Firefly? This size isn't in the family portrait. Will a "B" power load fit this package?

THE 18 X 45mm IS HIGH ON MY WISH LIST.
The family portrait is not complete. I hope to get it updated soon. The S is there. I think only a 3/4B-x will fit in the 1.75" package. But a full B6-0 will fit. Or B14-0S.
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  #19  
Old 01-06-2007, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl@Semroc
The S is there. I think only a 3/4B-x will fit in the 1.75" package. But a full B6-0 will fit. Or B14-0S.


Fun stuff, I hope the S makes it onto the first run.
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  #20  
Old 01-06-2007, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl@Semroc
The family portrait is not complete. I hope to get it updated soon. The S is there. I think only a 3/4B-x will fit in the 1.75" package. But a full B6-0 will fit. Or B14-0S.


Good to hear, as I want to have a FireFly in my collection, too. Maybe even an Estes Midget (or two... Blame Doug S...)...
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